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No hope? (Long, long, LONG read)

Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up?Posts: 16,688
First of all I'd like to apologize in advance to anyone who might feel worse about themselves by reading the following...

I've been meaning to make this post for a while now. I'm not sure it belongs here, so feel free to move it.
It could actually be two posts in different forums, but they're very closely related so I thought it best to make them into one divided into two parts.

Part 1
Let's start with a clarification that will hopefully prevent some advice that you might give but which would be very irrelevant to my case: I'm not bothered by the fact that I'm single. I'm bothered by the fact that I have always been single. It's not a case of "needing someone else to be happy", at least I don't think it is, but a case of "needing to know what it is like to be with someone else to be happy".
It's even more complicated than "having always been single", because as I've come to realise what I'm missing mainly is female contact. Since I was about 8, my social contact with girls was minimal at best. Somehow there was only one in our primary school class, and once I moved to secondary, initially I was very shy around girls (which I understand is quite normal for some boys at the age of 12), and then things happened -which are irrelevant here- that sort of made me a social outcast at school, and my only friends (meaning people I spoke to and sometimes hanged out with) were 5 guys.
It took me too long to realise that I could have stopped being an outcast, and by the time I did I was halfway the last year at school, and for me that was too little time to actually make any new lasting friends. My insecurity issues that still make it difficult for me to ask anyone (of either sex) for their phone number didn't help any either. I did have crushes during that time of course (3 mainly), but they never led to anything more than just having one more person to chat to during breaks. And unfortunately things didn't change much after I finished school. I've no trouble talking to anyone, but very few of the people I talk to I end up meeting outside uni, and pretty much only one woman in that list (who I'm not sexually or sentimentally interested in).
Now, I've spent a lot of time trying to understand why having always been single bothers me so much, when (I think that) if it hadn't been that way I wouldn't be bothered by being single. I think that the main reasons this is are the following:
1)I'm never going to have a silly teenage kiss, I'm never going to have a silly teenage fight, I'm never going to hear someone say "I think she fancies you but is too shy to tell", etc. I think you get the idea. I'm never going to have a "relationship" (notice the quotes) which will be in as simple terms as it would have been when I was a teenager. For people my age it's not enough to think that the other is good looking and/or a good person, people take into account what jobs you do and "Where do you see yourself 5 years from now". There's so much I've missed already, and it's gone forever because I'm older. So I'm terribly, terribly afraid of missing more. And I don't want to end up as one of those 30-40-50-etc-year-olds who is never interested in anyone a day older than 20.
2)Relationships etc are a main part of life, there's no arguing on it. It's not like never having gone bungie-jumping or never having gone to 20 countries around the world, it's such a basic and main part of life that even the poorest, hungriest person in the world has some form of it. Everybody has some memories of it, something to remember. Open any "life" magazine and you'll find articles on it. Listen to 95% of any song available and you'll see it's about this thing. There's no question about it, it's a basic, main part of life. And yet I've been denied it. It all feels like having a room in my own house that I've never been allowed into, and it feels horrible not to know what it's like.
3)Sooner than I'd like to, I'm going to finish uni, and I'll have much, much less free time in my hands than I do now. And I'll be forever jealous of the people who have memories of what it's like to not be single when you can spend the whole day together if you want. One more thing that will be forever gone if enough more time passes.
4)What I describe in part two.
They say things like "Desperation is unattractive" etc. And I believe it. I believe it and I totally understand why that's so. But there's simply no way for me to not be desperate, when something that was the thing I've wanted most since I was 14 is so out of my grasp, while it's an everyday part of like for mostly everyone else. So perhaps I'm doomed.

I don't know what kind of advice to ask for. Any non-patronising kind would be welcome.
P.S. If you're going to say "There are worse things than this", don't. Of course there are worse things than this. It's the No1 rule of life: "No matter how bad things are for you, whoever you are, whatever your problems are, they could always be worse". But that's no reason not to want to make things better, or even to feel shit because things aren't good.

Part 2
I'm, very simply, not interested in sex. At all. In fact I'm a fair amount frightened by the idea, and even disgusted by it. I've really no idea why I'm so different than pretty much everyone else in this matter, but I am. I've tried to deny it but that was just a delusion. It can't be said any simpler than this: I'm not interested in sex, at all.
I think that perhaps if female contact hadn't been so totally absent in my life until the recent years, perhaps this would be different. But there's simply no way for me to know.
This is definitely a problem, because while it could be very possible to have a complete "relationship" (notice the quotes) without sex when you're 12-17, although it would get harder the older you get, it seems like it's simply an absurd idea when you're in your twenties, and I understand why. So perhaps I'm doomed on account of Part 1, simply because of that.
Aside from the fact of not being interested in sex, I couldn't describe myself as an asexual. As you must have gathered from above, I am very interested in women, and very very often I see someone and thing "Wow, she's so hot". And to complicate things even further, I'm totally fascinated (or maybe "obsessed"?) with breasts. You see what I mean, if it would be difficult to find someone who'd be in for a "Sorry, I'm not interested in sex" kind of relationship, it must be impossible to find someone who'd be interested in a "Sorry, I'm not interested in sex, but please take your shirt off" kind.

I gues my question for this part is: Is there anyway to become interested in sex? At the moment, even if I try to watch any kind of (softcore) porn, I get totally disgusted the moment genitalia get involved and shut it off...

Parts 1 and 2 considered, it looks like I might be totally doomed á priori on the "women" front. Nothing I can do about it, and while (as I've said already) I don't think being single means you can't be happy, I'm totally sure that a whole life where you're always single is one I'd rather not live at all. So what do you think... am I totally doomed? No hope?

I suppose thanks are in order, for anyone who read that much.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I say you need to practice thinking less and actually do more. You seem to overanalyse a lot and ultimately it only makes things harder for you. I say that because I've been there myself.

    In specific, I think you focus wayyyyyy too much about some experiences you may have 'missed' when you were younger. Some experiences you seem to think you should have experienced. While you're stuck in the past there's no way you can move forward. You need to accept who you are and where you go from there.

    You can sit and make up as many excuses as you want for not having done this and that in the past. It's easier than standing up and stepping outside your comfort zone to do things that may scare you. Thinking too much and making excuses just doesn't get you anywhere.

    You need to find a way to meet more people, preferably in a setting where you'll need to socialise with both women and men. You also need to get yourself into situations where you act more (doing some kind of sport could be one way for example). Improving your self confidence probably wouldn't hurt either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The lack of relationship at your age thing is probably more normal than you think, there always seem to be posts on here from people who have got to their 20s and never kissed anyone or had any kind of relationship.

    I guess the only thing to say with regards to that is that you do have to try and focus more on the positive things in your life, learn to feel relaxed in yourself I guess and take advantage of opportunities to meet new people (women). That is a lot easier said than done, but if a lot of the time you're stressing about the fact you've never had a girlfriend and putting pressure on yourself to meet someone, it is going to make everything that much harder.

    I think you should be with someone because it is right between the two of you, not just because you feel a little bit of a spark and need to be in a relationship just so you can say to yourself that you have done it, that isn't what they should be about. I can see you finding someone who shows a bit of interest but then putting too much pressure on yourself and her to make something serious materialize, especially since you've spent so much time analyzing your life and all the friendships you've had with women.

    As for the sex thing, you'll probably find that when you're actually with someone, things are different. I wouldn't worry about being disgusted by porn, although it is something lots of people enjoy it doesn't give a true depiction of what sex is actually like a lot of the time. The important thing is just to relax, stop putting so much pressure on yourself and worry about every aspect of a potential relationship before you have even had one. If and when problems arise in a relationship you can deal with them then, but don't let them turn into something before the relationship even exists.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You think too much.

    Loads of people haven't had a "relationship" by the time they're your age. As for missing out on all that stuff when you were younger, I was at a single-sex school for a long time & missed out on pretty much all that too, but I'll survive. I may not be a traditional girly girl or any of that crap, but hey who cares. I'm me. I may not have done the giggly "oh he fancies you", "hi, my mate fancies you" blah blah blah crap, but who cares. Despite films and books telling you otherwise, a lot of people haven't had the stereotypical teenage years, so don't worry about missing out. Yes, relationships are a part of life, but hey all that teenage crushes, heart-breaks etc, aren't gonna kill you if you don't go through them.

    Since I was in single-sex schools for a lot of my education, I find girls way easier to talk to than guys, but thanks to uni, I'm getting over that. But I've noticed that's generally how life goes anyway. Girls will usually hang out with girls and guys with guys. Not always, but quite a lot of the time. As a result, I have more female friends than male, not always helpful when you're looking for a boyfriend!

    As for the much less free time on your hands when you leave uni, probably true, but you still get weekends off (I'm assuming) & you can have holidays. You will still get time off.

    Don't worry about not being interested in sex or finding genitalia disgusting. When you get into a relationship, go slowly and work it out then. Until you're in a position to get some, it's not going to be a problem, so don't fuss about that. Plus when you're in the right relationship, you might change your mind. I did.

    I don't think you're totally doomed. Find other things to get involved in. I know its hard, but try to put the whole relationship thing to the back of your mind. Take up a new hobby or something, distract yourself. Just keep living and someone will come along. Maybe join an online dating service, one of my friends did and after meeting a few morons, she's now found a good guy and they're getting on great.

    But relationships are not the only thing in life. Try to focus on other things. I know its hard, but I don't know what else to say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think its maybe not that strange that youre not turned on by the genetalia of unknown women in porn. It doesnt necessarily mean that if you found a woman that you really felt a lot for that you wouldnt be wholeheartedly enthusiastic about every part of them, even if you think their breasts are sexier looking than their vaginas, youd have to obviously accept that every single person in the world has genitals, and not be horrified by that even if its not your best bit.

    As for feeling worried/sad that you havent had a relationship yet. Its a shame as youre lovely, but i think you should try not to worry. its not a reflection on you and it will happen in its own time I think
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    don't know what to say about the rest of it but I really wouldn't worry about the dissinterest in genitals and sex part. I don't think many women would find anything off putting about just looking at boobs being your 'thing'. maybe it's TMI but I was playing with a 'friend' yesterday and he really really likes to look at boobs, so I was just bossing him around a bit with my bra cups pulled down for about an hour; he really liked it, I liked that he really liked it -- win!

    It may seem to you that there's this natural progression that people are supposed to go through from kiss chase in primary school, holding hands in middle school changing partner every couple of weeks, to falling in first love/lust at high school but I truely don't think it runs that way for most people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i shouldn't worry too much about the sex thing, i'm sure when you meet someone you really like and who likes you back it will all be different. I know lots of people who have been in similar situations to yours and sooner or later they have met someone.

    depending on the job, you will probably meet new people through work so don't think uni is your last chance to meet someone, we spend our whole lives meeting new people.

    i spent a large portion of my life single, much more than in a relationship and when i did finally get into one it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. You will meet someone special eventually.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is no blueprint for life, we only think there is because we're spoon-fed a one from birth. Turn on the tv and someone in some show is either meeting someone new, breaking up, getting married, getting divorced, having kids, going on dates and so on and so on. Same with the music you mentioned.

    So who says that you're supposed to have these experiences, that you're supposed to have a crush or be the recipiant of a crush, that as a male you're supposed to be interested in sex, that your life isn't complete if you haven't spent a lazy day with the 'one' or taken a walk at night and rushed home to write poetry about how her hair looked chased by moonlight?

    The desires you have are not wrong they're fantasies and we all have them, popular media makes sure of it.

    I guess what it boils down to is this. Take some of the really good advice that's been posted already and step back a little. Involve yourself in as many leisure pursuits as you can that involve other people. You say you have the free time use it. Just enjoy life. When you look back it's strange the memories that linger and the ones that fade, and what's even stranger is that the ones you think will be burnt in your mind forever quite often fade over time.

    Some of my best memories involve nothing major, just hanging out with mates and shooting the shit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I will answer to part 2 first:

    Don't bother. Even tho it seems a bit peculiar, it's nothing I would worry much about, when you did not have much female contact etc. With the right woman I am pretty convinced that your drive will come right back, or "develops" for that matter... sort that out when you have problem one solved. No girl is going to ask you "hey, when we are in a relationship, we are going to have sex, or not?". And every sensible girl will have no prob to wait a bit with it, I'd say. bother with that prob when you are that far.

    And yea... we are all obsessed with breasts :yum:

    About your first problem: all I can say is, that a small audience makes little applause. Nobody is able to love you, if this someone doesn't even know about your existence. Raise your chances by going out more, let friends introduce you to their female friends, at least TRY. If you expect too much, you won't be disappointed naturally, but I think every little progress might bright you up now. Interact socially with people, expand your acquaintances, then you have AT LEAST the chance that some girl notices you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    even if you do have a fetish for breasts, there will always be others out there who share/complement those fetishes. Admittedly it might not be the norm for most people, but it doesnt mean you wont find someone with big boobies who gets off on the fact that you love them
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Thanks everyone for your replies, I took some time to let them settle in my mind (which isn't one of the fastest, so it takes a while).

    The general opinion on part 2 seems to be not to worry about it at all, so I won't, now that I know it's not as horribly abnormal as I thought it was. Thanks :)
    It's just kind of awkward when I'm in a group of people and they talk about sex stuff (not with details, just in general) and it's not because I've not had any, but because I'm not interested, so I tend to stay silent (and even try not to listen sometimes -because of the disgust factor).
    And, Suzy, when did I ever say "big"? :p (I could have used a different smiley here but decided against it for politeness's sake).

    As for part 1, first of all it's hard not to dwell on the past when there's nothing in the present to compensate for it. So far I've not found a way to do it.
    Everyone seems to say that I should go meet more people, which of course I know, but I don't know how. The ones I don't rarely ever introduce new ones to me (StrubbleS, what did you mean by "let"? It's not like I run away screaming when they bring someone I don't know along :p), and when they do I never see any of them again unless they happen to be there in another meeting with the common acquaintance, which is rare.
    This semester I've been talking to some new people, and they've been talking back, but generally they seem to be in a "not bad having you around when we're in the same place, but that's all" mood. I said I have trouble asking people for their numbers etc, but to be honest it's very rare that someone asks me too.
    As for trying new things to meet new people, that seems to be my best bet, but I still don't know what. I've thought of sports etc (I used to do a bit of basketball when i was a kid) but I'm "afraid" it would just be me and a bunch of people of the "Anyone who spends less time than 15 hours a day working out is worthless" or the "My foot/basket/whateverball team is better than yours, we'll kick your ass in the next game" type. As for social clubs of the "We all like X thing" type, if there are any I've never heard of them. So I don't really know what to do.

    EDIT: Forgot to say, I've thought myself of using online things for dating etc, but there comes the scare factor (which I guess would also appear in offline events), which is that, like someone very correctly figured, I'm afraid of the unknown, and that includes dating. This is one thing I intended to say in the original post but forgot to mention.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I'm not very good at giving advice, but I'll give it anyway.

    Try and make yourself what girls are looking for, if you know what I mean. Who doesn't like someone who is generous, kind, dapper and overall decent person?

    As for not liking female genitalia... liking boobs is half-way there. I'm sure if you get to know the right girl the rest will follow.

    Oh, and the saying that "good things happen if you don't look for them", or whatever is usually bull. You have to make your own opportunities. If you want something, go for it.

    Good luck :thumb:
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Sometimes the whole thing makes me feel very down...

    When I was 14 I was given a few "toys" that had a string to pull and when you pulled it they exploded with some confetti. I saved one of them, thiking that I would get to the roof and use it to "celebrate" on the day I got my first kiss.
    At the time, I thought it would be perhaps a year, two at the most until that happened. The fact that I would get to over 20 and still have not lived that, was something that never crossed my mind. I couldn't even have imagined it in my worst nightmares. (I don't even know where the above object is now).
    Nowadays I try not to think of this fact at all, I still find it too horrible a thought. But sometimes, like now, I can't keep it out of my mind. And what makes the feeling even worse is that even if I do something as soon as tomorrow to get my life on track, it will be months or perhaps even (a more horrible thought) years until the one thing I've wanted more than anything for so many years now happens. It's a horrible thing for me to think about, so I usually just don't...

    I'm aware that I've said nothing new in this post. I just needed to let it out somewhere (again).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Have you done anything to work on yourself?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I haven't really got any advice to add (it's pretty much been said) but I would just like to tell you you're not alone.

    I'm 21, and am yet to have a grown up long term relationship. My situation differs from yours a little as I have had the obligatory 16 year old tongue-down-throat moments and the obligatory 6 week hand holding exercise known as a 'teenage relationship' and to be honest, that's all they were - obligatory. They weren't enjoyable, I just did it as it was something you did at school, you snogged guys at house parties and you pretended to have a relationship. Honestly, you haven't missed much. I wish I could take it all back - I'd rather not know anything than have the memories of the beer smelling, heaving breathing, tongue down my throat days.

    All I'm trying to say, is that you've got it all to come. Probably not quite as traumatic as my first sexual encounters, but it's to come all the same.
    You're older and wiser and you know who you are; you know what you want and who you are attracted to. That's what makes it so much better than being an impressionable teenager who doesn't know whether he likes blondes or brunettes. Just, improve on yourself. Make sure you're happy with who you are and then it'll be so much easier to be loved by someone else.
    I'm rambling now, so I think I'm gonna shush hehe.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Jaloux wrote: »
    Have you done anything to work on yourself?
    Not really, I'm planning to now. I still had hopes of completing this stage of my life before moving to the next, but I've come to realise it's not possible anymore.
    I had to finish the "school" stage without completing it, and I was hoping that I'd at least get what there was to get out of the "carefree youth" stage. Guess not. And who knows how much longer I'll have to wait? Perhaps I'll be 50. Come THEN and tell me not to feel bad about it.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    and to be honest, that's all they were - obligatory. They weren't enjoyable, I just did it as it was something you did at school
    If you didn't want to, you could have avoided it. I wanted to.
    Make sure you're happy with who you are and then it'll be so much easier to be loved by someone else.
    It's a very simple thing I want to have in order to be happy with who I am. And this is part of it. I can't be happy with who I am if I feel worthless in this aspect.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Going to be slightly blunt, but there's no point in dressing it up.

    Loads of people never went out with anyone at school, plenty of people had never been kissed when they left school, and at every school, in every class there are a few of the 'outcasts' as you so nicely put in. Lets say 2 in every class of 30, which is about 6% of the population.

    Like someone else said, you need to get over this hang up of never getting a teenage kiss, it's not a big deal and you're not the only person.

    Sitting at a computer whinging about hardly knowing any girls or friends generally isn't going to change that. Likewise, trying to second guess what will happen if you try something means you'll never get out the door, and things won't get any better.

    Look around, go and try some clubs/groups. Most unis have societies that cater for wide range of interests and abilities. OK, you may not get onto the uni basketball team but if you hunt around you should be able to find a group that play for fun rather than too seriously.

    When someone takes up something new, they don't know much about it, if you make the effort to turn up and show an interest, any half decent person will try and make you welcome and explain things, with time you'll know what's going on and what they are talking about.

    That said, these things take effort, you can't expect to go to a club and have a great time and be totally one of the gang after the first night. You need to put the effort in.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    It's a very simple thing I want to have in order to be happy with who I am. And this is part of it. I can't be happy with who I am if I feel worthless in this aspect.

    You're getting this the wrong way round.

    You need to be vaguely happy with who you are, in yourself, not because of your attachments.

    Lots of girls don't want to be someones trophy, part of someones identity, at least to begin with, certainly any guy who wanted to go out with me because without a girlfriend they felt worthless would be told precisely where to go!
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Going to be slightly blunt, but there's no point in dressing it up.
    Agreed :)
    Sitting at a computer whinging about hardly knowing any girls or friends generally isn't going to change that. Likewise, trying to second guess what will happen if you try something means you'll never get out the door, and things won't get any better.
    I'm planning to do something ASAP, but going over all the options there seems to be only one way to start, and it probably won't happen before the end of this exam period. I do plan to do something, all I was saying is that I know that even then things won't magically become alright, and definitely not as soon as I'd want them to.
    Look around, go and try some clubs/groups. Most unis have societies that cater for wide range of interests and abilities.
    Not mine. That would be a good way to start, but unless I start one such thing myself (which I might just do, actually) it won't happen.
    Lots of girls don't want to be someones trophy, part of someones identity, at least to begin with, certainly any guy who wanted to go out with me because without a girlfriend they felt worthless would be told precisely where to go!
    I think you are getting this the wrong way around. I never intended to go out with someone because I'd feel worthless otherwise (actually, if that was reason enough for me, I'd have done so at 13). I feel worthless because there has never been someone to go out with for real reasons.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I feel worthless because there has never been someone to go out with for real reasons.

    Nope, still the wrong way round.

    You don't need to go out with someone to have a worth, just because you have worth doesn't mean you'll magically find a partner.

    Getting a tick in the once having had a relationship box doesn't confirm that you're a worthwhile person.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Perhaps not. But that still doesn't help me to not feel at a disadvantage.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That's why you need to stand up and do something about the way you feel.

    You say you'll do something ASAP then turn around to say you probably can't do anything until after exams. To me it sounds like it's just one way to put it off even longer.

    Like I said earlier, you think way too much. You need to break that habit and keep yourself busy doing something that stops you.
    I've been there myself and still today it takes me -2 seconds to think of ten different outcomes of a potential situation if I put my mind to it. Then I can expand on it endlessly. ;) My biggest gain of freedom was to put an end to it. I'm much more impulse driven today and because I've not predicted failure beforehand mistakes aren't as significant in the long run.

    Until you decide to get active about your situation you're still going to feel this way no matter how much you rant about it or blame the world.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Jaloux wrote: »
    You say you'll do something ASAP then turn around to say you probably can't do anything until after exams. To me it sounds like it's just one way to put it off even longer.
    To be more precise, my only option at the moment seems to be getting a job. But I doubt they're going to hire someone during an exam period, which entitles people to be away from work on any morning when there's an exam. I'm still looking into it, once I get some advice, but I'm not expecting anything before the end of exams.
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