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But you'd be happy to take someone else's organs to save your own life?
I don't claim to be right about everything. But I believe in certain things, like everyone else does presumably, and will usually criticise people if I think they are acting in a reprehensible manner.
As I said, if someone has a reason that I see as valid I will exclude them from my name-calling. But the only reason I can think of at the moment (other than perhaps religious, and then I'm not sure which religions forbid organ donation) for people not wanting to donate their organs is that of selfishness. Or perhaps superstition, which to be fair wouldn't make them selfish.
I may not always agree with that view - but I don't think those who do think that are automatically selfish twats.
Nobody said that. They said that someone who doesn't agree to give their organs after they die is a selfish twat. Nothing to do with your opinion on the law. You can oppose anti-racism laws on the grounds of personal freedom, and still call someone who abuses other races a racist twat. Or oppose the drafting of soldiers but consider those who don't volunteer in a particular situation to be cowards. And so you can oppose the opt-out donation system and still think that those who don't voluntarily give up their organs for donation are selfish.
I think that Jews don't cremate their dead, because of some teaching about the decomposition process being cleansing of your sins before the soul can get into heaven (cremation being a shortcut to heaven that God would be pissed off about, whereas cryogenic freezing is torture for the soul). In that case, I suspect that for some, this would extend to the whole of the body. Also, Jehovah's Witnesses are against blood transfusions, so I couldn't see them being too keen about organ donation either.
The only other reasons I can think of is the person who refuses to donate without knowing who it is going to (the whole George Best situation).
Hey, when did I get dragged into this? I never called anyone a selfish twat.
Why is that wish any less valid than your wish to give your organs up? (aimed at aladdin) Do you go round collecting for charity, then calling people selfish twats when they don't put money in the tin? The few pennies / pounds is probably worth less than someones organs are.
I think it's remarkable that some people want to give up their organs after they die so that someone can have a better chance of life. I think that that kindness is diminished however by those who feel a) that it can only go to 'selfless' others who also choose to donate b) that those who don't donate aren't as good as you. Because then it's not a selfless act at all, it's an act of self fulfillment, so you can go to bed at night thinking what a good person you are, and wonder what a horrid place the world is where people might object to the idea of being chopped up and sent round the country after they die.
Perhaps a bit of understanding that even after death, someones body may hold some meaning for them would help get past your prejudgements.
Hey fair enough
Aladdin - you're a selfish twat for thinking people are selfish twats
Stupid - sorry
If they want to actively participate in a debate orientated forum it'd be useful though.
I reserve the right to judge whoever the hell i please - unless you're an advocate of thought-crime?
I really can't think of a stand-point that would reasonably justify not wanting to give up your organs post death. You could argue with monetary charity that giving requires loss on behalf of the giver, but you just don't lose anything with organ donation after death.
N.B.: I'm not inferring i think you're a twat if you don't want to be an organ doner, but i do reserve the right to think you're being selfish.
Yea, you can judge who you like. I mean, I think it was Kiezo who was saying people do judge others for whatever - he gets judged for his music taste and obese people get judged for their weight.
What I'm saying, is that judgement isn't valid. It's not 'fair' so to speak. I think you could judge someone on something fairly like if someone beat up their partner because they were drunk, judging them to be violent is fair, because the reasons are clear / transparent.
But on something as contentious and I'd argue personal as organ donation (it's an individuals body, after all) - I don't think a judgement on whether someone wants to give organs or not is valid. It's like judging someone based on whether they masturbate. It's nobody's place to make that judgement, it's between that person and themselves only.
Someone does benefit from organ donation, but that doesn't change the fact that the benefactor is not 'entitled' to an organ (not that they aren't worthy of having one), it's given as a gift - and it's not fair to judge someone's personal decision not to give that gift. All credit should be given to those that do, but what gives you - not the right - but the authority or legitimacy to cast judgement?
In my mind it's no different from judging someone based on their personal choices that only affect them. Hard to think of a good example though, other than masturbation.
I need to start finishing my essay
There is a cost though, difficult to measure. It's an emotional cost. Or spiritual, for some. People pay a lot of money to look after their emotions, and something like organ donation people will have different opinions on and they may not feel comfortable with it.
Why don't they feel comfortable?
Maybe they don't like the idea of being cut up like a meat carcass.
But that's irrational?
Most people don't always think rationally, especially if you consider spirituality and religion. You don't have to believe in god to believe you're special, or have a sense of purpose, or a sense of 'being'. To have a sense that you're unique and even have a soul.
I mean, I could go on, but it's just going to be a circular argument of asking people to justify why they feel about their lives in a certain way. At the end of the day, people have different beliefs. I don't think people spitefully withold their organs.
Again, we should celebrate and commend those that do give their organs freely and happily, but shouldn't feel that others should be obligated to do so.
I should have thought that of all people those with a strong sense of spiritualism or religion would be the most willing to donate their organs, in order to preserve life and help their fellow man. Each to their own I guess...
that's the point
honesntly, they'd do better if they removed the right of families to object to organ donation, and similtaneously mail everyone a thing saying "do you want to donate your organs when you die? if so, how many?"
or paid for street stalls around the country as well, and it wouldn;t interfere either
personally i'm a willing donor, i don't want anyone to go against my wishes, however my body is mine to do with as a please, and in all honesty if it's really unhealthy when i die, i'd rather it went to medical students to cut up and learn about anatomy hands on
It's a good thing me thinks.
I'd hate it if I had to die, because some greedy asshole rather takes his liver 6 feet under to let it rot.
You might say that... I couldn't possibily comment :P
that's the thing, if it's done anything like SPINE, well i hope they don't
if they want to do an opt out system, they should send everyone a letter saying if you don't tell your GP or us you want to opt out then you'll be on the donor register
Personnaly i cant bring myself to be cut up and issued out when i die, i know it could save a life, ive nothing against anybody who wishes to do so.
My reason is simple, when i die, i want to be burried, i want my wife and kids to be burried WHOLE!
I want to be able to visit them knowing that they are actually there! I want my kids to visit theyre das grave knowing its me thats burried, they are speaking to me!
If i die today, do i have that respect from the goverment? how can i opt out? do my family really need to go through that?
The Donor Card was and is the best idea, if you have a card then you should be registered on a system (not a cd to go missing).name address? these could be brought up on a data base.
Though would that even work?
We get told what to do, we need to pay this and that, no wonder the number of people looking to emigrate has increased.
where do we go from here?
Ant
Thats probably not going to happen anyway. On that What Britain Earns program they showed a mortuary in a hospital and I think it was half of patients who die have to have an autopsy to determine cause of death. That rate is probably increased for deaths out of hospital
And when your kids visit you'll be there at first but after a few years there won't be much left of the tissues that could have been put to good use
How would you feel if your kids needed an organ but died waiting while organs were going to waste, not because their owners minded their organs being used but simply because they forgot, or were too lazy to sign up, or put if off until tomorrow...and then tomorrow...