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BBC2: What Britain Earns

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/page/item/b008m4c8.shtml?q=what+britain+earns&start=1&scope=iplayersearch&version_pid=b008m4c2

This is quite a fascinating documentary giving an insight into the sorts of jobs done across the country.

Physical effort / energy required to do a job seems directly inversely proportional to pay packet! Work in a call centre = stringent targets, pushy selling for £6/hr. Work as a stockbroker with established clients = make a few calls a day, spend half the day surfing the web for 20 times that.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmm that does look quite interesting, will have a watch of that

    cheers dude

    (btw i think you should branch out from the whole taking about jobs thing, theres plenty in here you know!)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    By some coincidence, this show is airing on BBC Wales right now and I'm watching it. It's intriguing stuff!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks :)

    love peter snow
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Need2Vent wrote: »
    Physical effort / energy required to do a job seems directly inversely proportional to pay packet!

    Well it didn't really say that, did it? I suppose it's true, but pay usually goes up in terms of responsibility and expertise rather than effort required. I did notice the bit about female dominated jobs being routinely paid less than male dominated jobs though. I mean we all knew it happened in the private sector, but even the councils are up to it, despite having pay bands that should render it impossible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Need2Vent wrote: »
    Work in a call centre = stringent targets, pushy selling for £6/hr. Work as a stockbroker with established clients = make a few calls a day, spend half the day surfing the web for 20 times that.

    Sounds interesting, but i'd like to raise a point.
    If you work in a call centre, and work your way to the top then you'll have an equally easy life. Being a stock broker, from what I gather is very difficult for the first few years, 50+ hour weeks, very antisocial hours e.t.c. You get rewarded at the end of it though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I watched a bit of it. It mostly depressed me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It depressed me as well - I earn less than a tube driver and someone who works for pret - sob sob.

    Mind you I guess I work for a charity and could probably earn more in the private sector if I wanted to.........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well it didn't really say that, did it?
    It broadly showed it. The more physical effort required to do a job, the less you're paid it seems - at the bottom end of pay scale are those having to rapidly do stuff like leek-picking or in a factory - with very limited breaks and stringent hourly or daily targets. At the top end there's often very little running around to do, completely flexible to surf the web / play squash / go to the gym / go for a coffee during working hours. Entertainment/sports industry the anomaly!
    whowhere wrote:
    Sounds interesting, but i'd like to raise a point.
    If you work in a call centre, and work your way to the top then you'll have an equally easy life. Being a stock broker, from what I gather is very difficult for the first few years, 50+ hour weeks, very antisocial hours e.t.c. You get rewarded at the end of it though.
    That said, if you start as a stockbroker somewhere big, you can make close to £100k in your first year out of uni with the commissions/bonuses... and the more senior guys often still do similar hours, their clients are there before the market opens so need to be serviced?
    katchika wrote:
    I watched a bit of it. It mostly depressed me.
    I found it fascinating and really humbling, was completely oblivious to how many people were in sub-£20k jobs. And couldn't believe that £46k would put you in the top 10% of earners - though maybe that's just basic salary, bonuses in sales & managerial roles can be many multiples your base.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I thought the shocking bit was about the increase in the gap between rich and poor. I mean, I knew it was there, but having it illustrated as such is quite harrowing. I think they would have done better to show a chart where every mm is a pound, so you can see literally that those at the top earns tens or hundreds of times of those at the bottom.

    I think the government has been misrepresenting inflation figures. From what I've seen, the minimum wage now will get you a lot less now than it would have 10 years ago. Some things aren't always reliable measures, like the RPI. I mean, compare that to housing - houses were continually going up 'above inflation' and everyone thought it was supply / demand. Where was all this new demand coming from though?

    The fact is, that the house prices were inflation, just that it's very easy as a government economist to pick and choose what figures you want to use. So are you going to use the most flattering or the worst figures?

    Main problem is though that lots of things are depending on the announced inflation - for example wage increases.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Government doesn't misrepresent the inflation figures themselves, it simply misrepresents the causes of inflation.

    Inflation, broadly speaking, is the rate at which the value of the pound compared to goods decreases. The more goods cost, the higher inflation is. The more people that earn £1, the less its value is.

    The Government is trying to say that controlling public sector pay will curb inflation becuae if pay remains static then the value of goods will remain static. To an extent that's true- pay cleaners £10m a year and suddenly a loaf of bread will cost £1000. Pay everyone £6 per hour and the value of £6 reduces.

    But the cost of goods is far more important to inflation at the moment than the value of work. NPower have just put the cost of gas up by 17%, which means that you need to spend 17% more money to get the same amount of gas. Petrol prices have practically doubled in the last five years. House prices have gone up three-fold since 1990. That's why there's inflation, not because public sector works dare to insist on a 2.5% pay rise.

    The gap between rich and poor will only be reduced with a taxation policy that makes the rich pay more tax than the poor. Inflation will be curbed with a similar taxation policy.

    Sadly at the moment we have a Government that is about to double the rate of tax for those who earn less than £12,000 a year in order to pay for a tax reduction for those who earn in excess of £30,000 a year.

    £46,000 is an awful lot of money and its something that those in well-paying jobs tend to forget. £46,000 is around £10,000 more than my wife and I earn combined.
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    It shows that salary isn't a good indicator of the work you do. Teachers and nurses getting quite an average wage yet I have far more respect for the work they do than some self obsessed high flyer in the business world.

    I do what I enjoy. I'm now roughly earning half of what I was earning this time last year and I'm now longer my own boss, because although I was earning good money I was bored. I'm still happy with the choice I made.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We've been doing alot about this is sociology, i had my exam on it yesterday and I missed this! It really doesnt make sense to double tax on the pooerest, I really don't see what it's going to help. My mum will be paying double the tax and she only earns £8000 a year before tax.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    80% of day traders make a loss, as well, yet still get paid so much for it.

    What I meant about inflation kermit is that there's quite a lot of different ways to measure it and I think the government has been picking the nicest figures - because really some prices should have increased above and below inflation. At the moment it seems only wages increase below inflation. But I'm not an economist, just remembering from a level economics.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    £46,000 is around £10,000 more than my wife and I earn combined.


    So, add three kids to your family and you'll find that it isn't actually that much really.

    Certainly not enough to afford to buy a house down here, unless you want 5 times mortgage
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So, add three kids to your family and you'll find that it isn't actually that much really.

    Certainly not enough to afford to buy a house down here, unless you want 5 times mortgage

    Easy to say when you're one of those ridiculously overpaid NHS middle managers! :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    Petrol prices have practically doubled in the last five years.

    Source please? I understand that petrol prices have gotten pretty ridiculous in terms of the fuel duty vs. money the oil company makes vs. price the garage charges, but are you sure it's almost double? Considering the lowest I've known petrol to be in the past few years is about 68p or so in 2000, I'm not sure where you get your figures from?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Doofay wrote: »
    Source please? I understand that petrol prices have gotten pretty ridiculous in terms of the fuel duty vs. money the oil company makes vs. price the garage charges, but are you sure it's almost double? Considering the lowest I've known petrol to be in the past few years is about 68p or so in 2000, I'm not sure where you get your figures from?

    oilprice1947.gif

    Petrol prices are directly proportional to crude oil prices
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Petrol prices are directly proportional to crude oil prices

    I wouldn't say directly proportional, more influenced by. It sure as hell hasn't dropped recently!

    I got my first car in 2002 and the petrol prices round our way were around 71.9p per litre. That was the lowest I ever saw. Since then it's gradually increased to 99.9p. It's not double, I grant you, but if you're driving a lot, it's a fair bit extra.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    kaffrin wrote: »
    I wouldn't say directly proportional, more influenced by. It sure as hell hasn't dropped recently!

    I got my first car in 2002 and the petrol prices round our way were around 71.9p per litre. That was the lowest I ever saw. Since then it's gradually increased to 99.9p. It's not double, I grant you, but if you're driving a lot, it's a fair bit extra.

    I think the government has absorbed some of the price increases by reducing tax to keep people happy, but will probably increase tax again if the price of oil falls.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Doofay wrote: »
    Considering the lowest I've known petrol to be in the past few years is about 68p or so in 2000, I'm not sure where you get your figures from?

    The lowest I've known it was about 60p in 2000/2001 time, just before the attacks on New York.

    In Newcastle now the cheapest petrol stations are selling at £1.02. That's an increase of about 70%.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally Posted by Kermit
    Petrol prices have practically doubled in the last five years.

    2002- early 2007 only saw a small increase in real terms

    http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/petrolprices.html
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    april 2007. it has been increasing lately yes
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote: »
    2002- early 2007 only saw a small increase in real terms

    That's great, but it's now early 2008.

    Also, I don't think the prices were as low as claimed. It certainly never dipped below 90p per litre around here at the beginning of last year.

    It's also a bit of a pointless deviation from my original point.
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    Prices are 10p/ltr more than this time last year in this area anyway.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    The lowest I've known it was about 60p in 2000/2001

    I remember it when it was sold in Gallons :(

    I also remember when it was 70p per gallon, although I was only a kid then
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is absolutely crazy.. i wont say how much i earn but i am 23, live alone, and own my own home..

    I had no idea £46k was in the top 10%! I honestly thought that figure was about the average wage for a middle-aged person..

    this has shocked me
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    M1nkeh wrote: »
    This is absolutely crazy.. i wont say how much i earn but i am 23, live alone, and own my own home..

    I had no idea £46k was in the top 10%! I honestly thought that figure was about the average wage for a middle-aged person..

    this has shocked me

    living in a bubble, are we?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    drumbeat wrote: »
    living in a bubble, are we?

    apparently so.. how do some people actually afford to live???
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    M1nkeh wrote: »
    apparently so.. how do some people actually afford to live???

    cutting down uneccessary spending, benefits, saving, buying cheap stuff instead of the stuff they might want, going without stuff that they might want.... etc etc.....

    are you for real?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    drumbeat wrote: »
    cutting down uneccessary spending, benefits, saving, buying cheap stuff instead of the stuff they might want, going without stuff that they might want.... etc etc.....

    are you for real?

    To be fair to the guy, it *is* hard to grasp how some people scrape by if you're not used to doing it yourself. You always live to your means, and so what may seem luxuries to some are just everyday for others.
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