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Socialists saying I'm greedy/selfish cos of my job

13

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    If you're working high up in a bank which exploits people though, you're doing A LOT towards that exploitation in my view and you should deal with it.
    I have repeatedly said, most investment banks do not have a high street branch network, therefore do not deal with the ordinary citizen, therefore do not exploit them. But just like Kermit, and lots of others, you ignorantly link "investment banking" to "overdraft fees".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Need2Vent wrote: »
    I have repeatedly said, most investment banks do not have a high street branch network, therefore do not deal with the ordinary citizen, therefore do not exploit them. But just like Kermit, and lots of others, you ignorantly link "investment banking" to "overdraft fees".
    What bank do you work for and what do they do then?

    Do you think to tell these people who aparently for no reason make such accusations?

    ETA: And I didn't mean about over-drafts an' all that, but working with 'unethical' companies.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Not really... We're all a part of it somehow. It's impossible to escape... Unless we want to live on our own land, use permaculture to grow our own food and not pay taxes.

    Although saying that, it's likely that cleaners would be working for contract companies. Plus people who are cleaners don't really have the choice like people who go higher up either.

    (I retract my statement because it was the wrong example to use)

    Fair enough. It was all getting slightly surreal there for a moment! :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    Fair enough. It was all getting slightly surreal there for a moment! :D

    Nah, I just meant if you're a cog, however small a cog then you're still helping to run the machine.

    Some people have to be a cog in whatever machine they can get... Others go to university, apply for jobs and go "ooh look! Big pay packet :D:D:D " and hand in a CV... Of course, there are people who are cogs who love the machine too and will happily grind around all day.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Nah, I just meant if you're a cog, however small a cog then you're still helping to run the machine.

    Of course some people have to be a cog in whatever machine they can get... Others go to university, apply for jobs and go "ooh look! Big pay packet :D:D:D " and hand in a CV... Of course, there are people who are cogs who love the machine too and will happily grind around all day.


    Still, it shouldn't provoke the responses it does from certain parties simply down to the job somebody has.

    People choose different routes. Unless somebody is perhaps a nasty third world dictator (genocide is hardly pretty etc) or something equally 'evil', who are we to judge somebody just because they make a lot of money from effectively doing nothing wrong. At all. Unless you class working hard wrong?

    I just don't find anything wrong in being part of the 'machine'.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    Still, it shouldn't provoke the responses it does from certain parties simply down to the job somebody has.

    People choose different routes. Unless somebody is perhaps a nasty third world dictator (genocide is hardly pretty etc) or something equally 'evil', who are we to judge somebody just because they make a lot of money from effectively doing nothing wrong. At all. Unless you class working hard wrong?

    I just don't find anything wrong in being part of the 'machine'.

    I'm not talking about 'right' and 'wrong'.

    And if you work for some companies, they're probably supplying arms to that 'third world dictator', or maybe they're investing in the arms company that supplies arms to said regime. It doesn't really matter... It's fucked up and we're all connected somehow.

    But a step up the ladder is usually a step closer to the incredibly fucked up things these companies do (sorry... GROSS oversimplification). If people want to work for them, then they can go ahead... But it will piss some people off because it goes against their morals.

    Say you're working for Nestle, well people may look at you and wonder how you can sleep at night, some will get nasty. At the end of the day though, whilst people should live and let live... You chose to work for the company and with some professions you'll attract negative attention.

    People have to deal with that.

    Damn.. We all get shit for doing something.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok, title of this thread is not ideal.
    But the reactions... say more about the people than the original poster.
    Poster has clearly stated that their skills match those needed in the job, so they're judged cause they choose a job which suits them?
    If you can get good money from what you do, why not?
    If your only aim is to get that money no matter what you do, that's when I'd personally step off the train.

    And as said, almost everyone start conversation with what do you do. Namaste, you're a student too, right? Have you never been asked as an initial question "what do you study?", it the exact same as being asked what do you do for a living in my eyes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    I'm not talking about 'right' and 'wrong'.

    And if you work for some companies, they're probably supplying arms to that 'third world dictator', or maybe they're investing in the arms company that supplies arms to said regime. It doesn't really matter... It's fucked up and we're all connected somehow.

    But a step up the ladder is usually a step closer to the incredibly fucked up things these companies do (sorry... GROSS oversimplification). If people want to work for them, then they can go ahead... But it will piss some people off because it goes against their morals.

    Say you're working for Nestle, well people may look at you and wonder how you can sleep at night, some will get nasty. At the end of the day though, whilst people should live and let live... You chose to work for the company and with some professions you'll attract negative attention.

    People have to deal with that.

    Damn.. We all get shit for doing something.

    We do. I also see the other points you're making, and it's the way of the world. Nobody is ever going to be 100% happy with everybody, and some people just get their noses bent out of shape far too easily.

    Some cop it unfairly though, IMO, and this is the point we're discussing.

    The discussion, at least for you and I seems to have reached a conclusion, (before we start dancing, hand in hand, in lovely circles ;)) so I'm going to bed :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dear Wendy wrote: »
    And as said, almost everyone start conversation with what do you do. Namaste, you're a student too, right? Have you never been asked as an initial question "what do you study?", it the exact same as being asked what do you do for a living in my eyes.

    Not that often and I'm really social...

    Perhaps because I come from a working class place t'up north that I've never heard it in a pub.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Not that often and I'm really social...

    Perhaps because I come from a working class place t'up north that I've never heard it in a pub.

    Oh - for the record, I'm from Bradford originally :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Not that often and I'm really social...

    Perhaps because I come from a working class place t'up north that I've never heard it in a pub.
    I've been to parties in Liverpool, Grimsby, Newcastle, Leeds and Huddersfield. I've been to parties where most people are "working class" and never went to uni. And was still asked as one of the first questions what I do for a living. When you meet people, what are the first words exchanged??
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    Some cop it unfairly though, IMO, and this is the point we're discussing.

    Some jobs you go in to knowing you're shitting on people. A lot of the public know that and I don't think it's unfair to tell somebody that you think what they're doing is disgusting.

    Of course there's being aggressive about it, but let's be fair... Being called a wanker for doing PR for Coca Cola is nothing compared to the pain of the family of somebody who was bumped off by paramilitaries for joining a trade union... Or the villagers who g without water because Coca Cola drained their sources (actually, the latter may be Pepsico, can't remember that one).

    Don't get me wrong, they provide jobs but they also do a lot of bad shit.

    Yeah, some people do get a bit too much shit though, especially if you don't know what your company's up to.

    *Shrug*

    But to be fair, I'm a cold bitch.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Need2Vent wrote: »
    I've been to parties in Liverpool, Grimsby, Newcastle, Leeds and Huddersfield. I've been to parties where most people are "working class" and never went to uni. And was still asked as one of the first questions what I do for a living. When you meet people, what are the first words exchanged??
    Normally just "a'right"... An exchange of names, what we're in to and stuff.

    Maybe you go to different places than me... But I really haven't got it that much and when I have, people normally don't care.

    I just find it hard to believe that people will have a go at somebody for being an investment banker.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Normally just "a'right"... An exchange of names, what we're in to and stuff.

    Maybe you go to different places than me... But I really haven't got it that much and when I have, people normally don't care.

    I just find it hard to believe that people will have a go at somebody for being an investment banker.

    Asking someone what they do is an ice breaker. It's an easy way to find something out about the person, possibly find a common ground to progress the conversation on with etc. I tend to say I work in IT/software development and then get the typical geek/nerd/no social skills/boring square eyes etc stereotype responses. I can well believe with the negative feelings towards investment bankers that half the country has that the OP will get some sort of stick as a response to his job.

    Often it in my case, whether rightly or wrongly, I take it with a pinch of salt how people respond and generally decide it's all light hearted fun, or if they are being serious that it won't take me long to change their mind. But it can be annoying having people make such a judgement on you within a minute of meeting just because of the job you do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Everyone gets judged on their job. Get over it. When I worked as a journalist I was obviously a liar with no morals. Now I'm temping as a receptionist, so clearly I'm completely thick. At least you're earning big bucks. Just stop moaning.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah, here we go, the old chestnut about how "leverage" and "equity finance" doesn't do anyone any harm. Go and tell that to the Farepak savers, or the Enron savers, or Northern Rock savers, or even Barings...

    My point isn't that the corporate side of banking is directly responsible for overdraft charges and the like, more than the whole banking industry is geared up to exploit people wildly with little concern to ethics or morals. The overdraft charging and the exploitative lending in the personal banking market illustrates this wonderfully.

    The whole banking system is geared up to exploitation. Whether your bank is Barclays or Namura isn't really the point. If you are a cog in an exploitative and unethical machine then you're going to cop some deserved flack.

    At a personal level I couldn't care less how much you earn because I'm happy with what I earn. But if you're going to come and brag about how great your work is I'm going to argue back, because you are responsible for some very dubious and unethical investment practices. If you're getting that sort of wedge then you're high enough in the bank to be responsible for policy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Need2Vent wrote: »
    What? Whenever you meet someone for the first time, say in a pub/bar/club, introduced by a friend or stranger, one of the first things people ask is what you do for a living.

    Is it? I'm sure I've never asked anyone that. And I'm sure some people have volunteered the information without me asking. I think the only person I'be ever asked was a friend of mine and that was because he mentioned something about work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Melian wrote: »
    Is it? I'm sure I've never asked anyone that. And I'm sure some people have volunteered the information without me asking. I think the only person I'be ever asked was a friend of mine and that was because he mentioned something about work.


    Yes it is. It is, as has been said before, an ice-breaker - although oft used in some circles to ascertain 'social standing', which is a shame.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    g_angel wrote: »
    Yes it is. It is, as has been said before, an ice-breaker - although oft used in some circles to ascertain 'social standing', which is a shame.
    Never really thought of it as a "social standing" thing, I'm never going to see someone as "inferior" if they're doing something else. I've had plumbers, pipe fitters ask me what I do for a living.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katchika wrote: »
    Everyone gets judged on their job. Get over it. When I worked as a journalist I was obviously a liar with no morals. Now I'm temping as a receptionist, so clearly I'm completely thick. At least you're earning big bucks. Just stop moaning.
    Yeah you and Kazbo make great points, I suppose most people must get instant stereotypes/flak. I suppose I'm just a bit sensitive, I don't like being hurled abuse at, things people say end up being stuck in my head for ages. I don't know how to "deal with it" / "not rise to it" / "ignore it", easier said than done. And before anyone says I must surely get that shit in my job, no nobody gets yelled at or insulted!

    And I'm sorry about the thread title, surprised so many people are offended with it. I'm maybe a bit ignorant as to what constitutes 'socialism' - I just get pissed off with hypocrites spouting about how people live beyond their needs, when they're wearing expensive designer clothes, have an iPod, go on nice holidays etc - practice what you preach?!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Need2Vent wrote: »
    Never really thought of it as a "social standing" thing, I'm never going to see someone as "inferior" if they're doing something else. I've had plumbers, pipe fitters ask me what I do for a living.

    I know - this is something that occurs in the City, in my experience. Out of that environment, it is not a factor.

    It's not something I like, and so avoid it and I luckily don't often work in the City.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Need2Vent wrote: »
    And I'm sorry about the thread title, surprised so many people are offended with it. I'm maybe a bit ignorant as to what constitutes 'socialism'

    You came across as very ignorant and very self pitying, two things I cannot stand.

    I also stand by what I said about the banking industry as a whole. I work in the legal field so I do know what I'm talking about, just for your information.

    The easiest thing is to not give a stuff, or make a joke about it. I get loads of stick for working in the legal field, and I get even more when I tell people what I do (I'm a debt and benefits specialist for a charity).

    I'm being serious, though, I don't know how you can sleep at night knowing where your earnings come from. Directly or indirectly it's through exploitation of the disadvantaged. That said, my wage is paid by taxation :lol:
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    Kermit wrote: »
    You came across as very ignorant and very self pitying, two things I cannot stand.

    If someone admits to being ignorant about a subject, then there's really no need for that kind of response. Let's quit the insults and stick to the topic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    **Helen** wrote: »
    If someone admits to being ignorant about a subject, then there's really no need for that kind of response. Let's quit the insults and stick to the topic.

    No insult there. It was ignorant as in intolerant, not ignorant as in unknowing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I work in a shop.

    Some shops sell guns.

    1p of my wages come from selling guns.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My dad works for BAE. My entire childhood was paid for by nuclear submarine profits. ;) Quite cool getting free tickets to look round them though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    To be honest, that's never happened to me. But people really just randomly have a go? I think they'd have to be wound up or something first... Unless you are meeting people at the World Social Forum or something.

    Happens to me when people ask what degree I'm doing:
    'I study Management Studies'
    'Oh so you're not doing a real degree'.
    :p I normally laugh about it though :) (though yes, it does knock your self esteem inside :( I'm not sure I believe people when they say people demeaning what they do is rubbish - I mean we're practically defined by what we do. I am - a student. I am what I do. So if someone knocks what you do they're having a go at what you stand for too. That's possibly too deep though) and of course physics students get it just as bad except about the lack of social life.

    All prejudgements based on what course someone is doing / what job they do are of course bullshit. Doesn't matter if you work for a bank. I mean if you work for mcdonalds are you evil cos they used to (maybe still do) exploit the world's resources??

    You'll be hard pressed to find any kind of organisation that has absolutely no negative impact on someone. Except maybe hospitals *shrug*.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Happens to me when people ask what degree I'm doing:
    'I study Management Studies'
    'Oh so you're not doing a real degree'.

    It could be who I choose to spend my time with.

    I had it a couple of times in a bar I worked with, some people were quite nasty (because I do human rights, it apparently means I think black people should have more rights... Another one I had was "oh whatever... So what has human rights ever done for me???" Like... Duh :rolleyes: ).

    Mostly I get asked where I'm from.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I put money on it that none of you get as irritating comments as I do with my film degree. I don't really get that many "real degree" comments (and just mention "English Literature but with films" and it usually shuts people up), more the "when are you gonna make your big Hollywood film?" and similar bullshit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Need2Vent wrote: »
    I'm maybe a bit ignorant as to what constitutes 'socialism'
    Then don't say it.
    I just get pissed off with hypocrites spouting about how people live beyond their needs, when they're wearing expensive designer clothes, have an iPod, go on nice holidays etc - practice what you preach?!
    Since when do these people have to live up to your standards? :rolleyes:

    Just because somebody finds your choice of job unethical does not mean they have to become self-flagellating flugalists.

    I find it silly that some people get paid six figure salaries. I don't care what work they've done to get it or how much they point out to me that they give to charity (it doesn't make you a better person for giving more than them to charity, at the end of the day you have the money)... That's nothing against the individual, but the system. It makes me angry how some people get paid so little compared to investment bankers, footballers and celebrities... For example, nurses, firefighters and post(wo)men.

    There's nothing wrong with wanting to treat yourself now and again and you shouldn't judge them on it.

    At the end of the day, they could be struggling to live, but have saved up for that iPod and really really value it.
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