What does a degree mean?

Former Member

If one third of the present school leavers are going on to higher education, and mostly in degree courses, does a degree mean anything? Has a degree from a university been devalued? Do people think about what university it's from, what class it is, and what the subject is?

Degrees used to be for the most academically able, and surely demeaning them by minimal entry standards is completely against what they're for?

What do people think?

Former Member

Obviously there are certain professions that requrie certian degrees and depths of knowledge (medicine,vetinary etc) but i think that most other degrees teach you pretty much the same skills and most are transferable to all jobs.

Not sayin that different subjects are all the same but i think u should study a subject that intrests you because i think they all teach u teamwork,skills of analysis and the ability to become more confident!

Former Member

I think to some extent they have been devalued and I have heard of employers changing job titles to sound better than they are in order to get graduates to do them when as a fact they are the same jobs a school leaver would do.

It is much harder now to get a graduate position and most people would have to work in crap jobs or temp for a bit after graduating.

I do find it annoying when I see degree courses that you need (for example) 2 E's to get onto, because it devalues it for the people that work hard and takes the piss.

Some employers must look at the uni and degree level, but usually just the top employers.

Former Member

I dont think that degrees have been devalued I just feel that it has been done to let those more disadvantaged have a chance at making themselves better. I'm from a poor background and did well in my GCSE's but my A Levels weren't so good a D and an E and an E at AS Level even though I worked really hard to achieve these grades and it really made my year when I got a place at Lincoln University.

Former Member

It's a unit of measurement of temperature. <IMG SRC="tongue.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

You were asking for it.

Former Member

Pedant, and muppet.

Can I have your proper opinion, and make it your 6,000th post, or are you going to do something special with it?

Former Member

Unfortunately a degree these days means very little in the workplace.

Maybe it’s because I don’t have one, maybe I am biased, but many of my colleagues and friends agree.

I only had 3 A levels and didn't even bother applying to Uni. However many of my friends did. I left school in 1988 after my A levels. By 1989 I had a job at a local computer firm; by 1990 I was earning shed loads of money and had a company car. Now, 13 years later, I still earn a lot of Money and drive a Merc cabriolet, many of my friends who went to Uni and got degrees are in much lower paid jobs, got married to their uni girlfriends, had kids, split up, driving Honda civic's.

Two things here, the degree itself is worth very little, and the lifestyle you follow while at Uni seems to have a detrimental effect.

I have to hire people all the time for various technical jobs; I have to interview them to ascertain their technical skills and their social skills. One thing is apparent; the guys with degrees are technically adept at the subject they studied, hats off to them. However the breadth of knowledge is limited. Whilst I agree that the time spent studying and obtaining a degree shows a certain sense of dedication and ability to learn, invariably the stuff learnt is crap.

The people I pay special interest to are the ones who have done a sandwich course. The ability to function in the workplace is of infinitely more value than academic ability.

I’m afraid it’s the old adage – You need experience.

Reasons for this?
First an outline of the business. We install, maintain and consult on large Intel based server installations. Customer facing skills are a must. I have, on more than one occasion had the misfortune to work alongside Uni graduates, in this job and many previous ones, some older than myself; some younger.
The most common failing is the inability to communicate with the customer, something you cant teach. Its called people skills.
A lot of these people are Geniuses, hell I’d love to be on their side on University challenge. However they are naïve to the point of disbelief. Just to have some business sense, to know how to address people, to know what to wear (!)

I know it’s a long rant, but hey it needed saying. After all its people like me out there hiring you guys.

Advice ?
Choose a sandwich course, not a straight degree.
A degree in Zoology will get you nowhere if you want to work for Nissan.
Any work you have ever done, even Macdonalds is relevant, there will always be some aspect of that job that you can glorify.
Always, Always, Always turn up to interviews in a suit. It shows respect for the person doing the interview, and shows you have respect for yourself.
Research the company, any knowledge you have, however fragmentary or irelevent shows you have taken an interest.
Vocations do not earn you lots of money.

You may thing I’m old, past it, out of touch. That’s your opinion.
Most of my mates are about 25-26, so is my girlfriend. The ones that are successful, didn’t go to uni . I have a cousin who is 27, is just finishing her 3rd degree to do with Genetics and stuff. Shes been working for 4 or 5 years, and is still earning peanuts.

To sum up, the people who hire you and the people you will be working with will want you to conform to the standards they believe in. Do it or be unemployed. Yes I know its not right, but you cant change it from the outside, change it from the inside.

Former Member

Yes, I'd say that these days degrees are becoming increasingly devalued. My feelings on the issue are quite adequately summed up in this article:
http://www.thetimescrossword.co.uk/article/0,,1056-226653,00.html

Don't know how relevant this point is, but the other day I read that if you gain a degree in a "pointless" subject, such as Philosophy, would-be employers tend to pay much more attention to the quality of the institution you attended, as opposed to the degree itself.

Former Member

You can only do sandwich courses for certain subjects like engineering and business.

I can see what you (Quinner) is getting at but try going out in the workforce today with just A levels and see how far you get. The majority of decent jobs you need a degree to get a foot in the door (with the exception of IT on the whole).

Former Member

I'm a student in my final year at University and I agree that it does seem that degrees have been devalued. They're only really worth anything if you're planning on going into a profession which you couldn't have got into otherwise (which as a matter of fact I'm not!!!!).

Originally posted by morelifeinatrampsvest:
<STRONG>I dont think that degrees have been devalued I just feel that it has been done to let those more disadvantaged have a chance at making themselves better. </STRONG>

How does lowering the grades for being accepted to a University help the disadvantaged? How are we classing disadvantaged here? Poor people? Or people that aren't really clever enough to do well academically and in which case shouldn't really be going to Uni? I'm from a typical working class background and I got BCDE in my A-levels ... not the best I know but a damn sight better than what a lot of people are getting into Uni with these days.

<STRONG>I'm from a poor background and did well in my GCSE's but my A Levels weren't so good a D and an E and an E at AS Level even though I worked really hard to achieve these grades and it really made my year when I got a place at Lincoln University.</STRONG>

I feel really awful for saying this but if you worked really hard and they were the grades that you got, how do you think that you're gonna get on at Uni? If you found A-levels difficult, do you really think that you could cope with getting a degree?

Sorry if I seem mean in this but it did have to be said. I'm just thinking of your welfare in the long run. Uni isn't always the extended piss up that we students make it out to be. There are deadlines to be met and many long dull hours in the library. Many of my friends have dropped out/committed suicide/turned to gambling and alcohol to get them through it.

If you do choose to go ahead with going to Uni though, good luck and I hope that you enjoy it!!!

xxx <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> xxx <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> xxx <IMG SRC="smile.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> xxx

Former Member

Tony Blair wants to see 50% of people enter higher education.

This either means making people more intelligent/making teachers better (most teachers I've had were very good) or devaluing the degree (by making entry conditions stupidly low).

Or it could mean that more people study for a BA in Peace Studies <IMG SRC="frown.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Originally posted by * k-t *:
<STRONG>(with the exception of IT on the whole).</STRONG>

But what about a *decent* job in IT/computing?

Most of them require a degree now, even the techie jobs.

I'm not sure how picky PC World <IMG SRC="eek.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> is.

Former Member

I mentioned IT because it seems to be a sector where you can start at the bottom and work up, my b/f works in IT and has no A Levels or degree but is doing very well for himself.

Can people stop going on about pointless degrees please? Ok so certain degrees eg Law, Medicine, qualify you for certian professions but most degrees are there for one purpose. To teach you transferrable skills such as essay writing, presentations, organising, etc etc. A degree is a mark of achievement and supposedly of an intelligent person. Most graduates go on to work in fields unrelated to their degree and the majority of graduate careers are open to people with any subject.

Having said that, I got fed up at times doing English and Philosophy as it felt so irrelevent to the everyday world. I did not see how it was going to help me into a future job. Others loved the course so it was right for them.

Or you could be cynical and say that Uni is just somewhere the goverment wants to dump all 18 year olds for 3 years, like an extended school-well, it's better than being on the dole, *you have to pay back loans, you don't have to pay JSA back*

It does really piss me off though when you have students being all snobby about what type of degree is worthwhile, it is often the science based students. Well if when they graduate they ended up working in a bank we can all laugh at them and say their degree was a waste of time. You don't know what life will hand out to you.

Former Member

Originally posted by * k-t *:
<STRONG>Can people stop going on about pointless degrees please? Ok so certain degrees eg Law, Medicine, qualify you for certian professions but most degrees are there for one purpose. To teach you transferrable skills such as essay writing, presentations, organising, etc etc. A degree is a mark of achievement and supposedly of an intelligent person. Most graduates go on to work in fields unrelated to their degree and the majority of graduate careers are open to people with any subject.</STRONG>

Were you referring to my mention of "pointless" degrees? Because it was just my attempt at bringing up something I read the other day which I thought could add to the discussion. It worked <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">.

I agree with what you've said. I resent people - such as those I know doing medicine or law degrees - telling me that my English degree will get me nowhere simply because it's not directly vocational etc. I chose to study English at uni because I love the subject and I think that it does, as you say, involve the learning of important and transferable skills. Just because it isn't going to take me by the hand and lead me up Career Street (so to speak.. <IMG SRC="wink.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">) doesn't, in my opinion, render it pointless at all.

Former Member

I like your points...

September, I'm hopefully embarking on a three year course in Illustration, I hope to develop my skills and progress further in that subject.

What a degree will do for me is to build alot more bridges - I will become more confident/established and gain useful contacts.

Also, three years meeting new people, having full independance will prepare you for real living, you will have ideas and visions on what you want to do.

I think it is sad when people study a course for 3/4 years, which they really enjoy and then they go home and work in an office, doing something totally different.

9-5, Monday to friday is a kick in the balls!

Former Member

In engineering terms a degree to me means:

That I was stupid enough to spend 3 years putting myself through a course which in the end run will make me have a £4000+ loan to pay back but I will also have a piece of paper which will mean jack shit as in engineering, experience is more important than a degree!!!!!

I just cant wait to get my degree, woohoo <IMG SRC="rolleyes.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Former Member

This will piss alot of people off - Being an international student I get £4500 for the three terms (once a year) paid by the Government, like everyone else here and the people back home.

Therefore, alot of people from here go to University and spend it all on boozing and everything else, taking the money for granted.

If I was from England/Scotland/Wales, I would simply not go to Uni because having debts of 10 g's+/-, is not worth the year/2 years you spend paying it back.

Former Member

to Quinner post i have to say that jobs in the IT trade are the only ones i know of that a person can do better without a degree than with. my bf has only GCSES to his name (he was thrown out of the local college for crashing the server) he is now 28 and runs his own IT company earning lots of money and living the high life. however i also know people on the other side who did not get degrees and are now working low paid jobs with no prospects.
one of the main points behind getting a degree (besides the blatently obvious if its a work related degree such as medicine) is to show an employer that you can stick at something for a length of time, as i have to admit that being a student is not the nicest thing in the world the lack of money etc so anyone who can stick that out must be doing it for a reason. employers also prefer a Bsc over a BA as an arts degree is still looked down on as being easier and in Bsc you need to do some form of research. i never said it was fair but hey lifes not like that

Former Member

I would say that depends on the job you are going for surely- if you are going for a job in publishing/teaching/education, a BA would be much more suitable than a Bsc (unless you were going to be a science teacher of course!)

Former Member

it does not alway work like that kat as for my degree which i practical and very much work related i could do a BA or a Bsc and got told by the employers that a Bsc is considered better that a BA although i know for some course there is simply no choice of which hons you come out with in the end, i was just given the option of a degree with or with out research

Former Member

Well you cannot live your life based around what future employers may or may not think. I would rather work for someone who was concerned with the individual than what uni I went to and what type of degree I did.

Former Member

hey each to there own! just for me personally i didn't want to do 3-4 years on a degree and come out with no job, thats why i chose to do speech therapy so i would come out of uni with a job waiting for me, but for people who don't know what they want to do in the future then it doesn't really matter. i was just making the point that there is some kind of scale on which people view degrees, like i've said its not fair but we can't change how all the employees out there think can we

Former Member

I did a degree in Library and information studies and I'm the oly qualified librarian in the place I work. I get paid less than most of the other people and I have more responsibility that some of the people I work with.

In other words - It means nothing really.

However - I do a better job than most other people because I do my job properly and I'm doing the job I wanted to train for and most people here are just using the department as a stepping stone.