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"Demonising Fat People" - Appalled by peoples attitudes.

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Hi,
Was having a look through some previous threads when this caught my eye, the thread has been closed now but i really feel as though i have to say something.

Thoughout the thread there are very strong oppinions on fat people, which although people are entitled to freedom of speech, i was shocked and appalled by some of the comments.

As you can probably tell i am pissed off because i am indeed one of these dreaded, feared and disgusting fat people. I am one of these foul people who on a daily basis has to live with the stigma and ridicule of being unnaceptable to a huge proportion of the population.

One of the attitudes in this thread was that a person could not stand to look at someone or even speak to someone, because they were fat. In the same way that our society demands that we be politically correct in regards to foriegn people, or people with disabilities i believe that a similar attitude needs to be adopted towards people that are fat.

And the end of the day, the only thing that genuinely bothers most people is that fat people are different. Whether its through medical conditions, psychological or self esteem issues or just as a general life choice, i cannot see why people assume they have the right to be offensive, abusive and frankly damned well rude to people like me, who i'm afraid exist in this world, who have jobs, families, social lives and basically are exactly the same just lacking a skinny waist.

I am a healthy fat person. I'm not always the happiest person in the world, but then again, i wouldnt be too perky if I were anorexic either. I am intelligent, surprisingly pretty and i have one of the best set of breasts ever.

The only explanation i can find for people who think insulting people who are fat is ok, is that they cant begin to fathom the amount of courage and strength it takes to be something so widely unnaceptable and demonised.

To all these people i'd like to say, hate fat people as much as you want, but we not only are bigger people literally, if you are that predjudiced, we are bigger people metaphorically too. :)
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am intelligent, surprisingly pretty and i have one of the best set of breasts ever.

    :D

    Dunno why but that made me smile. I don't think anyone will disagree with you, there was only one person who said they couldn't be in the same company as fat people and that person has some insecurity issues himself so I wouldn't let it get to you. The vast majority of the population look past aesthetic looks so that's all that matters really, and those that don't aren't worth knowing anyway. :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    :D

    Dunno why but that made me smile.
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    The vast majority of the population look past aesthetic looks so that's all that matters really, and those that don't aren't worth knowing anyway.

    :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    The only explanation i can find for people who think insulting people who are fat is ok, is that they cant begin to fathom the amount of courage and strength it takes to be something so widely unnaceptable and demonised.

    So now it's brave to be fat? Please! :rolleyes:

    The rest of your post was fair enough but that was just silly.

    RE demonising fat people though, the media plays a big part. I don't know if anyone else noticed but there is a character fat person on Eastenders, don't know her name - but she's always on about food in a really gross way and it sets a really bad stereotype, its literally go on for months - anyone seen it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't know if anyone else noticed but there is a character fat person on Eastenders, don't know her name - but she's always on about food in a really gross way and it sets a really bad stereotype, its literally go on for months - anyone seen it?

    And she is a lousy actress.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    RE demonising fat people though, the media plays a big part. I don't know if anyone else noticed but there is a character fat person on Eastenders, don't know her name - but she's always on about food in a really gross way and it sets a really bad stereotype, its literally go on for months - anyone seen it?


    oh yes, thats exactly what I feared I would become, and still fear that people see me that way.(i am an idiot) How patronising are people towards her, but see how they have made her v eccentric too! its not right.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not a bad OP there Cassandra. It's true that it seems acceptable to demonise the overweight but, as loike many others here, I suspect that has more to do with media portrayal of the perfect body that much else.


    However, I do need to pick you up on something:
    I am a healthy fat person.

    Don't delude yourself. There is no such thing. Just because you don't have any real symptoms (or at least anything which you will link to being fat) the reality is that your heart will be having problems, as will your lungs. Your knees and hips will also be having problems. That goes for anyone overweight.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am a healthy fat person. I'm not always the happiest person in the world, but then again, i wouldnt be too perky if I were anorexic either. I am intelligent, surprisingly pretty and i have one of the best set of breasts ever.

    It depends how ''fat'' you are, there's a difference between being a few lbs overweight and a few stone. And no one said being anorexic is any better? The two extremes are as bad as each other. I'm also intelligent, pretty and have a good set of breasts - but it doesn't make me any better than someone bigger or slimmer than me so I don't really see your point.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    my tits are a bit shit asnd I still rock!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    my tits are a bit shit asnd I still rock!

    :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote: »
    It depends how ''fat'' you are, there's a difference between being a few lbs overweight and a few stone. And no one said being anorexic is any better? The two extremes are as bad as each other. I'm also intelligent, pretty and have a good set of breasts - but it doesn't make me any better than someone bigger or slimmer than me so I don't really see your point.
    Yep!

    It depends on what you call 'fat'. I know some women who are slightly bigger than me in build (I'd say I'm medium build... I carry my weight well), but who are healthier and their weight is muscle. However, unless your fat is muscle and you are fat then I don't see how that can be healthy. Fair enough, if you eat a great diet and are very fit and have a lot of energy, but I've never met somebody I'd consider to be fat who is fit because they're always carrying weight around and out of breath.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi,
    The only explanation i can find for people who think insulting people who are fat is ok, is that they cant begin to fathom the amount of courage and strength it takes to be something so widely unnaceptable and demonised.
    I don't mean to sound like a dick... But I don't see how it takes strength or courage to be fat in a society which praises skinny people and I get sick of hearing how people keep on applying emotional strength to people who exist in normal circumstances and get on with their lives, it's patronising.

    At the end of the day, whoever you are... People will be prejudiced. I speak as a slightly overweight women who has learning difficulties and a liking for other women sexually. There will always be somebody who has an issue with you whatever you are and I don't see how fat people should be treated as martyrs.

    If people make fun of a bigger person it is because of obvious insecurity, but NOT because they're scared of what's inside. They're judging on the outside, often because they find fat repulsive. Different strokes for different folks... If you're outside the box physically or mentally, you'll get treated as different. The difference with obesity being that people have more power to change themselves than probably the majority of other things that people get discriminated against for.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »

    Weightlifters can train themselves to lift weights... It doesn't mean they'll live long and healthy lives.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    they're ballet dancing, not the same in terms of fitness as weightlifting though. I think the big ballet troupe does at least go some way towards proving that you can be fat(ter) and fit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Weightlifters can train themselves to lift weights... It doesn't mean they'll live long and healthy lives.

    muscle and fat are NOT the same thing.
    a heavily muscled person is not fat, although they'll look bigger than the average joe.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    they're ballet dancing, not the same in terms of fitness as weightlifting though. I think the big ballet troupe does at least go some way towards proving that you can be fat(ter) and fit.

    you mean this? http://www.blackpoolgrand.co.uk/shows/1/355/The-Big-Ballet.htm

    I'm not sure what I make of it tbh, it says they all weigh at least 220lbs and don't want to lose weight which makes them all obese which I don't think is a very good example. And seems abit strange because unless they're eating loads, they will lose weight because they're excercising so much.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    otter wrote: »
    muscle and fat are NOT the same thing.
    a heavily muscled person is not fat, although they'll look bigger than the average joe.

    I wonder what their % body fat is?

    But with ballet, I thought they preferred small women because they're easier to lift?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wonder what their % body fat is?

    depends on the individual
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But I bet they're all in the "healthy" range, which means they aren't fat.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wonder what their % body fat is?

    But with ballet, I thought they preferred small women because they're easier to lift?

    With ballet you need alot of strength and muscle like any athlete to be able to do it professionally. Alot of the lifting is down to her being able to balance and hold herself, not her weight. Pointe is very dangerous as it is so it's not good to be overweight because that puts even more pressure on your joints. But anyone can do it as a hobby, there's a big girl in my ballet class who's being doing it all her life and she's very good. She's even doing a degree in dance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think as well people are confusing fitness with health.

    Yes you can be fat and fit!

    I know some people who are obese and everyone would class as fat, even if they carry it well, but have recently run a half marathon

    They are fit in terms of cardiovascular fitness, like the ballet dancers but not in terms of health!

    Certainly not healthy, and not all around fit, I really must dig out an article about healthy fitness I have somewhere
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Found it lol, Drew is my nutritionalist, a very very intelligent and knowledgeable bloke -
    *** What is 'health', what is 'fitness'? What does it mean for your training or sport? ***
    By Drew Price BSc MASc ACSM Cert RNutr Nutrition & Exercise Consultant, Healthy Action

    You eat well and do a push/pull/legs routine with some cardio on top, or possibly you compete in bodybuilding, powerlifting, mixed martial arts, triathlon or another sport. Your goal may be to look good, get stronger or faster and you may think you're in pretty good shape too, but are you fit and healthy? Firstly you have to define what these possibly 'fuzzy' terms mean.

    If you go to one or more of the on-line dictionaries the definitions are still pretty vague and you get results like 'health, noun, free from illness, or the state of being well' and 'fit, adjective, healthy and strong, especially as a result of exercise'. Text books are a little more useful: Exercise Physiology (McAdle, Katch & Katch) for example, breaking fitness at least down into four definite measurable qualities. However (in my opinion at least), they don't cover the bases and I'm not alone in this opinion.

    Let me suggest a couple that I have read in the past, proffered by coaches and health professionals that may be a little more useful for out needs:

    * Health: correct integration and functioning of our different physiological systems
    * Fitness: is the ability of the body to do physical and mental work

    As you can see these two qualities are inextricably linked, flip sides of the same coin, crucially without health you cannot properly develop fitness. So, you may have decent bench or dead lift numbers but are you fit? Tour de France cyclists may have enormous cardiovascular capacity but are they fit, or even healthy?

    I'd argue they're not. Fitness, or the ability to do work, is reliant on physical qualities which can be broadly divided into the following;

    * Speed
    * Strength
    * Power generation
    * Strength endurance
    * Flexibility
    * Range of motion
    * Coordination
    * Balance
    * Agility
    * Cardiovascular endurance

    There are of course others you could include like posture, muscle tone, kinetic control, etc. So if you have a few of these, even at a high level, but are seriously lacking in others then you can argue that you're not fit. In order to achieve a high level of fitness you have to at some point train all of these qualities and, the older you become, the more you have to train. Conversely the more you specialize in your training, including a sport, the more unfit you may become. You may even have health problems as well, even whilst becoming more adept at that pursuit.

    Seems counter intuitive, crazy even, but think about it for a while.

    Look at high level athletes of all types from bodybuilders and Olympic lifters to marathon runners and rate them against the measures above. Of course it all depends on what type of sport you play, what level you play at and what you training entails, for example mixed martial art is a sport needing many qualities. However for all sports the goal is the same i.e. not to get fit but to get more points that the other guys. This is an important point, to use my earlier example; Tour de France riders are not fit, they are just incredibly good at riding bikes.

    So what does this mean for you? Look again at the list of qualities above, note how they are all measurable and how one may have an impact upon some of the others, they are all linked. Goals aside (we have different reasons for training and joining MuscleTalk) have a think about those qualities and how you would rate yourself against each one. Ask yourself where you are lacking and how that might be affecting the other parts of the puzzle. By stepping back looking at your training methodically and working on an area that may be lacking can you help you overall training?

    You may not agree with what is written above but chew it over objectively and have a think about what it means for you, your long term health and training goals!

    Drew is available for tailored Nutrition and Exercise advice
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Found it lol, Drew is my nutritionalist, a very very intelligent and knowledgeable bloke -

    i agree with quite a bit of that tbh.
    fat people can be fit in the same way as skinny people can be unfit - think of the skinny guy who smokes 60 fags a day for example. i know some overweight people who can easily run 1.5miles and put in a good time. but because they are carrying excess weight they are putting more strain on their bodys to perform the same tasks as someone of average weight.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In the same way that our society demands that we be politically correct in regards to foriegn people, or people with disabilities i believe that a similar attitude needs to be adopted towards people that are fat.

    Oh dear god no. Excessive political correctness is wrong in the first place, we do not need it spreading further. If you can change how people think, it surely isn't through limiting what they can and can't say. You previously mentioned free speech; political correctness doesn't fit in with that. What would it achieve anyway? Slightly less demonisation in the media maybe, but the average person on the streets' opinion wouldn't change.
    Whether its through medical conditions, psychological or self esteem issues or just as a general life choice, i cannot see why people assume they have the right to be offensive, abusive and frankly damned well rude to people like me

    It's what people do, it isn't limited to fat people. Usually it's only to do with how you look though, as I assume you don't actually socialise with the narrow minded people would riducule your opinions for being different from theirs.
    I am a healthy fat person.

    Just because you don't feel physical symptoms doesn't mean you're healthy. I have a 32 inch waist but can't put on weight no matter how much I eat. I drink excessively, take drugs, eat unhealthily and rarely exercise. I still look 'toned' and feel no physical symptoms of being unhealthy, but I sure as hell know I am.
    The only explanation i can find for people who think insulting people who are fat is ok, is that they cant begin to fathom the amount of courage and strength it takes to be something so widely unnaceptable and demonised.

    Walking about as a tranny takes courage, I don't really see how being fat does. You could counter-argue that it takes courage to do something about being fat.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kiezo wrote: »
    Walking about as a tranny takes courage, I don't really see how being fat does. You could counter-argue that it takes courage to do something about being fat.

    :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok i really think i may have used the wrong words there, but at the same time it does take a lot of courage. On par with cancer victims, yes i agree it DOES seem trivial.

    However, take for example going to a restaurant. This is my idea of pure hell on earth. I have to sit in the corner, i wont go to the bathroom and i sure as hell can hardly touch any food that is placed in front of me. Because i know that at least one person will be sat there thinking, oh god look at that fat bastard. How do i know this? Because it happens.

    I've been fat my entire life. I've had pretty much every bitchy, nasty and offensive comment you can think of. I've sat there while and listened to children ask their parents why that lady is so fat. I've heard the remarks at buffets about getting in there quick before the heffer steals all the food. I've had the helpful strangers come up to me in the street and tell me that it would be very easy to loose weight if i just stopped eating. I've been screwed by guys who have been dared by their mates and also the ones who are testing the theory that fat girls will do anything.

    So please dont tell me that it doesnt take courage to be fat. It does. I'm not saying that fatness is something to be proud of. I'm not saying that it is something that should be encouraged. It is a dangerous condition for many people and can lead to god knows how many health related and pyschological issues. What I AM saying is that instead of being the but of jokes and treated as though we have leprosy, perhaps, just maybe, people could accept that fat people, whether they want to change, cant change it or even dont WANT to change it should be treated like human beings.

    I also hate being treated like a lesser person BECAUSE of being fat. I know perfectly well that if i ate less and did more excersise then i would be healthier and thinner, but until the day comes that I actually want to make that change in my life i cant see why I should be ashamed of being who i am.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    However, take for example going to a restaurant. This is my idea of pure hell on earth. I have to sit in the corner, i wont go to the bathroom and i sure as hell can hardly touch any food that is placed in front of me. Because i know that at least one person will be sat there thinking, oh god look at that fat bastard.

    Why do you care what people think? Fuck them.

    Sorry, but bravery to me is not hiding and worrying about what people think, it's doing whatever the hell you want to do and knowing that you want to do it and not giving a damn what other people think.

    If somebody has an issue with the way you look, it's their issue. Why should you let the opinion of a complete stranger get you down?

    I know the above sounds unsympathetic... I've been bullied a lot too, for having a learning difficulty and for being overweight. It's harsh and it hurts, but it's something that isn't going to go away unless you change to suit their approval. The world is like that.

    People will always judge others for the silliest of things... But it is up to those being judged whether or not they decide to take in the negative comments on board.

    Then you go on to say you're not ashamed of who you are. Well there you go then. What other people think is irrelevant and there are plenty of people out there, even those who are 'beautiful' on the outside who can't accept who they are or who don't see it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Why do you care what people think? Fuck them.
    QUOTE]

    I try to take that attitude. (and if i drink enough alcohol i actually suceed.) I know peoples attitudes shouldnt bother me but the plain fact is that I, and i'm sure countless other people, would really like to just be accepted.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I try to take that attitude. (and if i drink enough alcohol i actually suceed.) I know peoples attitudes shouldnt bother me but the plain fact is that I, and i'm sure countless other people, would really like to just be accepted.
    There will always be people who can't accept black people, people with disabilities, Catholics, queers, transguys and women, gingers, emos, liberals, conservatives, vegetarians, goths, chavs, Muslims, Asians, white people, Arabs, skinny people ect ect

    Those people don't matter.

    The people who matter are the ones who do accept whatever group you fall under and there will always be people who don't accept a part of you.

    Unless you 'fit in', you won't be accepted by many people.

    Besides, those who actually do make comments are probably so desperate to impress their mates that they have a fair few self-esteem issues of their own.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think if the whole world thought a bit more like you then the world would probably have far less problems :D
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