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No, it's about two Irish people going to America in search of the American Dream and not finding it.
Exactly. My gran used to use the word all the time to describe a strange person in the way 'queer' used to be used with no homosexual connotations. I've heard a lot of British OAP's use it in this way.
Faggot as a derogatory word for gays is an American thing which has only recently become popular in this country.
Kirsty MacColl who sings the lyrics is British and I'm pretty sur in the context of the song 'faggot' isn't meant to refer to anything homosexual.
And if you cast your mind back to 1996, there was a big hoo-hah regarding The Prodigy's "Smack My Bitch Up". Radio 1 didn't ban that! So, songs with videos that show women being beaten senseless are okay, but one song with a derogatory term towards gays isn't? Hmm...
Bollocks.
'Faggot' in this country is a word very often used in a homophobic and abusive context. I hate the word, I find it offensive and like every gay person I've frequently seen it used as a term of abuse... (On way out of DV8 there always seems to be some twats: fucking queer or fucking faggot are the preferred terms of abuse for such cunts).
That may be true now, but in 1980's Britain it didn't mean homosexual. It didn't mean homosexual when I was at school in the 90's, and anyone who called someone a faggot got the piss taken out of them for using a stupid, made-up word.
So far as I see it (and to be honest nobody came up with good reasons to attack hi last time a thread was about him in Russia), the fella has a point.
I actually really agree with this. It is unacceptable to have a white person say the n-word on the radio, especially as an insult... So why should it be any different for queer insults?
Again I agree. As has been said earlier in the thread, Chris Moyles saying things are 'gay'... Which might I add a lot of gay people find quite offensive. Or maybe we should change out vocabulary...
"OMFG THE BBC IS TOTALLY BLACK"
He has a point.
I'm quite in to free speech as I've said before. I think there should only be limitations on inciting violence.
The Fairytale of New York doesn't really bother me that much, I'm sure that it doesn't bother a lot of the LGBT community either. But it does bother me that it seems acceptable for some artists to have misogynistic or homophobic lyrics, yet you can't touch upon race and anti-semitism, or Islam. It is hypocritical.
Hardly, the n word is censored on daytime Radio 1 and misogynistic or homphobic lyrics are routinely condemned by politicians, activists and even artists.
Unfortunately we live in a society which prefers to promote the banal and/or controversial over thoughtful intellect. Thats certainly the reason why I and many Hip-Hop fans despise with a passion and refuse to listen to Tim Westwood.
I agree. I was in school in the UK in the 90's, and we had a hell of a lot of insulting words to mean gay, but faggot certainly wasn't one of them. It was something that your grandad would never be able to ge you to eat because it had a funny name.
As always, Wikipedia has the answers:
So there.
same with the word 'nigger' I don't run screaming from the room when it's used by Tarantino or slam the book shut when Flashman uses the word. I wouldn't use it day to day situations - but its clearly getting a bit silly if you can't use when entertainers can't use the word in an appropriate setting.
The question of whether use of 'nigger' would be tolerated in similar circumstances is an interesting one. I recall the bit in 'Blazing Saddles' where an old man tries to tell the townsfolk that 'The Sheriff is a ni...' being quite funny, likewise the old lady's 'Up yours, nigger!' Not for viewing by children of course, but there were obviously a fair few people, including me, prepared to defend Emily's use of the word on 'Big Brother' this year. Intent to offend, rather than entertain in an adult context, matters, I think. If kids heard the Pogues' song, found out what a 'faggot' was, and used it to taunt other children, that would be a bad thing. Sadly, all too possible, but twenty years is a long time to wait to consider that possiblity.
There are a lot of people on here who get upset at the use of "pikey" as an insult and it is exactly the same point. I don't think words like that should be being used, but I don't think its too offensive in the grand scheme of things.
I don't think the song should have been edited as it is 20 years old. Otherwise should we edit every piece of literature printed before about 1930? Most Victorian books use the n-word or "wog" to describe black people. There has to be a line somewhere.
But there is. It hasn't long been offensive slang in this country. Ask any old dear what faggot means or at least used to mean to them and they'll say it has nothing to do with homosexuals. The words very old, and in the scheme of things it's only recently developed this new meaning. Same with 'gay' and 'queer' - words that used to have nothing to do with homosexuality.
If this had been a song recentyl written then yes it woudl be worth all this fuss, but it was written 20 years ago and probably wasn't meant in the way you think it was.
Quite different. Pikey has ALWAYS been a derogatory racial insult.
Well I think they're being a touch sensitive then. It wasn't long ago thaxt gay meant something very different. Language evolves.
The word gay has gone form meaning happy to homosexual in a very short space of time and it looks like it's increasingly being used by the younger generation in place of the word 'bad' or 'crap' without meaning any offense to homosexuals.
To be honest, I don't see it as any coincidence that the term 'gay' has come to mean something negative, it blatantly has roots with homophobia even if most people who use it are too ignorant (and inarticulate) to realise that.
I doubt Chris Moyles would be allowed to say "this is totally black", or "this is Jewish" would you? Meh I dunno... His show annoys me so I'm not up to date on it.
I don't think the song should be edited, it doesn't really bother me. If he had called her a 'dyke' in the lyrics though, maybe I'd feel different.
It also means 'happy'. Homosexuals havn't got a monopoly on the word ffs.
Almost certainly it is has negative roots, but's it started to evolve beyond that to a point where many kids are using the term with no negative connotations.
The words 'gay', 'queer' and 'faggot' all meant very different things nt so very long ago. Seems the meaning of gay is changing again.
And? "This is totally black", or "this is Jewish" are not popular terms amognst young people are they? As I said it's taken on a different meaning.
Is it though. I asked my old man earlier on he can quite clearly remember people reffering to somebody strange as a 'funny old old faggot' when he was younger, without any connection to homosexuality. I remember my gran using it all the time like this.
Infact if you look at the lyrics, if MacColl did mean it as a gay insult it doesn't really fit. I've never thought of it that way until the BBC censored it.
How do you know the word "faggot" in the song is a reference to homosexuals? The very fact that even now, it doesn't always mean "gay" and even less so in olden days, how are you so sure? And Skive is right, language is constantly evolving, words may have one meaning one moment, and another the next. You're so up yourself sometimes it's unreal.
I view this as naive I'm sorry. I definately think it has homophobic roots and whilst people who don't hate gay people use it without thinking, you can't deny that a lot of people do. It makes some people feel uncomfortable because of what it means and because of the connotations.
Kids use a lot of words anyway... To a kid, "spastic" is not offensive.
I know people who say that things are Jewish and that people are 'Jews'. That could be taken as offensive by Jewish people.
I can see why gay men may take offence by it.
This is 'politics and debate' not 'politics and hissy fits'.
I'm simply debating my point of view and empathising with people who have experienced homophobia (because I can) who may take offence to the song. I'm not calling for a ban on it at all.
Just because we don't always think the same way Turlough, does not mean that you have to lower yourself (and the tone) to bitchy little snipes on internet forums.
I reserve the right to hear this stuff. It's the same debate as the BNP being allowed to speak at the Oxford - people wanting to dictate what i can and can't hear.