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Knife crime - how the hell do you stop it?

2

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Quality refutation. A+
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Havent seen all the posts but its a farce i think, how easy it is to buy a knife. I remember last year round some of the markets in birmingham you would walk past stalls with buckets of kitchen knifes and all sorts of other knifes which you could buy for like 50p each! Was a joke! You cant stop it either way, if someone wants a knife they'll get one no problem, not like we can ban knifes. There in every home!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quality refutation. A+

    A refutation? You didn't even make a proper post.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    :lol: :rolleyes:

    Definately has something to do with gangsta culture, and rap plays a big role in this imo. When I was hanging about street corners it was just to get pissed and stoned and have a bit of craic, not cos I was defending my community with my homies. Fucking children!

    Exactly that...so many people are taken in these days by fake gangsta hip-hop, actually you can't even call it hip-hop.

    They don't seem to realise that the majority of the rappers they 'relate' to lived in nice big houses and had comfortable families/upbringings and wouldn't know drugs/guns/gansta culture if it bit them on the face.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If they all got hit by a bus the world would be a better place.

    If those same boys were born into a family like mine or yours they would be totally different people with different aspirations. Having no sympathy for them or the situation that thousands of children are born into is never going to help solve the problem.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lipsy wrote: »
    If those same boys were born into a family like mine or yours they would be totally different people with different aspirations. Having no sympathy for them or the situation that thousands of children are born into is never going to help solve the problem.

    :yes:
    You can tell they don't actually mean all of what they were saying. It's just a front.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lipsy wrote: »
    If those same boys were born into a family like mine or yours they would be totally different people with different aspirations. Having no sympathy for them or the situation that thousands of children are born into is never going to help solve the problem.

    I agree. I'm all for finding ways to solve the problem. I do baulk, however, when it's implied these kids aren't responsible for their actions because of their disadvantaged backgrounds. I'm a strong advocate of personal responsibility and accountability.

    When one of the little fuckers is holding a butcher's cleaver to your throat because 'he didn't get the same opportunities as you' did, he's not a victim.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    agreed, of course they were playing up to the cameras but they're still a bunch of nobjockeys imo.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do baulk, however, when it's implied these kids aren't responsible for their actions because of their disadvantaged backgrounds.

    They're not? Give me a good reason then why they are?
    When one of the little fuckers is holding a butcher's cleaver to your throat because 'he didn't get the same opportunities as you' did, he's not a victim.

    So if a bus ran over them all then "the world would be a better place?" Sick person.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lipsy wrote: »
    If those same boys were born into a family like mine or yours they would be totally different people with different aspirations. Having no sympathy for them or the situation that thousands of children are born into is never going to help solve the problem.

    You mean you're not "Lipsy From The Block?"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    They're not? Give me a good reason then why they are?

    Are you serious? That's a dangerous mentality you have there.

    You can explain to the family whose son got a meat cleaver in the back that the 'he can't be held responsible, he didn't get enough hugs'.

    I'd also like you to try explain the the family of the dead ten-year-old that the lad who shot him isn't responsible, he came from a disfunctional family.

    You're on another planet mate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lipsy wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqyU2z-FJr8


    I don't know whether to laugh or worry!



    They're like that on my patch and were trying to big themselves up last night. Fucking morons the lot of them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You can explain to the family whose son got a meat cleaver in the back that the 'he can't be held responsible, he didn't get enough hugs'.

    I'd also like you to try explain the the family of the dead ten-year-old that the lad who shot him isn't responsible, he came from a disfunctional family..

    Who said anything about family values? It's much more complex than that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You mean you're not "Lipsy From The Block?"

    Well actually I did grow up on the mean streets of salford :razz:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Are you serious? That's a dangerous mentality you have there.

    You can explain to the family whose son got a meat cleaver in the back that the 'he can't be held responsible, he didn't get enough hugs'.

    I'd also like you to try explain the the family of the dead ten-year-old that the lad who shot him isn't responsible, he came from a disfunctional family.

    You're on another planet mate.

    You seem to think that because we want to look at reasons for their behavior that we're excusing it. We're not.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lipsy wrote: »
    You seem to think that because we want to look at reasons for their behavior that we're excusing it. We're not.

    Maybe i've come across a bit extreme in my opinions on the matter - i get a bit knee-jerk on this topic.

    I understand that there are causal factors - often out of the children-in-question's control - behind their behavior, but it doesn't negate their accountability or responsibility.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lipsy wrote: »
    If those same boys were born into a family like mine or yours they would be totally different people with different aspirations. Having no sympathy for them or the situation that thousands of children are born into is never going to help solve the problem.
    Disagree. People like this do not need sympathy. After all, feeling sorry isn't going to get them to lay down their guns and knives. Feeling sorry isn't going to get them to leave the gangs and stay away from the drugs usually associated with the gangs. I am more than prepared to try and understand why they got into it in the first place - I would suggest that family breakdown is the biggest factor of all here - but I think sympathy is unhelpful.

    People must take responsibility for their own actions, not pass the blame onto someone else every time something goes wrong. If they did, most of the social problems we have now would be far easier to deal with. People must also work hard to help themselves and each other and not depend on others to do it, nor depend on others to foot the bill. I'm thinking about feckless parents who live on benefits and can't be bothered to look after their kids properly. How many there are, I don't know, but I do know that lazy parenting isn't helping.

    I would also suggest that giving parents and schools the power to enforce discipline once more would be useful. Kids know that they're untouchable these days - for example, laws against smacking, which some twisted do-gooders consider akin to child abuse, must be repealed at once. I'd even go as far as saying schools should be allowed to bring back the birch. I have also suggested in the past bringing back the death penalty. Maybe, on reflection, that would be going too far, but I do think we need to be far more enforcing on discipline. As a bonus, the teachers in our schools will also be able to do their job without intimidation from some noisy little bastard of a child who hasn't the first idea how to behave.

    Liberals will, at the suggestion of bringing back the birch cry, "oh, but that's inhumane". Bollocks to that, frankly. What is humane about seeing youngsters dragged into a culture of drugs and killings? What is humane about seeing kids stabbing kids, kids shooting one another. And what is humane about seeing parents having to bury their own children? I have seen a woman at her own child's funeral before. It was easily the most heartbreaking thing I have seen in my whole life. No parent should ever have to go through this. Our society must take a different path if this pointless carnage is to stop.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Liberals will, at the suggestion of bringing back the birch cry, "oh, but that's inhumane". Bollocks to that, frankly. What is humane about seeing youngsters dragged into a culture of drugs and killings?

    Hmm, a culture of drugs and killing. A culture of drug gangs and killings that make people feel unsafe on their own streets. A feeling that will often make people feel the need to carry a knife. A knife that can then easily be used in a split second decision to stab someone when they might otherwise run away or fight with something less lethal like their fists. And all caused by the government putting the drug trade into the hands of criminals that would have no problem selling it at the school yard.

    Have more guns in people's houses, and you'll get more situations where a gun is used in an argument that gets out of hand. Have more people carrying knives, and you'll get more situations where a knife is used in an argument that gets out of hand. It's quite simple really.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Have more guns in people's houses, and you'll get more situations where a gun is used in an argument that gets out of hand. Have more people carrying knives, and you'll get more situations where a knife is used in an argument that gets out of hand. It's quite simple really.
    I certainly wouldn't favour US-style laws where the right to own guns is practically enshrined in the constitution. That means the only answer is stemming the flow of guns. But how on earth can that be done? More border controls? New laws?

    Or are we looking at the wrong issue here? It's not the gun or knife that kills, it's the person using it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I would suggest that family breakdown is the biggest factor of all here - but I think sympathy is unhelpful.

    Sympathy is unhelpful? Sick cunt.
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I'm thinking about feckless parents who live on benefits and can't be bothered to look after their kids properly. How many there are, I don't know, but I do know that lazy parenting isn't helping.

    So how do you know parents on benefits don't look after their kids? Speculating as per usual. :rolleyes:
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I would also suggest that giving parents and schools the power to enforce discipline once more would be useful. Kids know that they're untouchable these days - for example, laws against smacking, which some twisted do-gooders consider akin to child abuse, must be repealed at once. I'd even go as far as saying schools should be allowed to bring back the birch. I have also suggested in the past bringing back the death penalty. Maybe, on reflection, that would be going too far, but I do think we need to be far more enforcing on discipline. As a bonus, the teachers in our schools will also be able to do their job without intimidation from some noisy little bastard of a child who hasn't the first idea how to behave.

    I dunno, I got beat up by teachers when I was in primary school (even though it was illegal at the time) and it scared the living shit out of me.
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Liberals will, at the suggestion of bringing back the birch cry, "oh, but that's inhumane". Bollocks to that, frankly. What is humane about seeing youngsters dragged into a culture of drugs and killings? What is humane about seeing kids stabbing kids, kids shooting one another. And what is humane about seeing parents having to bury their own children? I have seen a woman at her own child's funeral before. It was easily the most heartbreaking thing I have seen in my whole life. No parent should ever have to go through this. Our society must take a different path if this pointless carnage is to stop.


    Twat.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I certainly wouldn't favour US-style laws where the right to own guns is practically enshrined in the constitution. That means the only answer is stemming the flow of guns. But how on earth can that be done? More border controls? New laws?

    Erm, how about addressing the root cause of why people feel the need to own a gun/knife in the first place, like I said? People feel the need to carry because they live in a shitty area. One of the main causes of violent areas is drug gangs. Taking the supply off the criminal gangs and into the hands of the authorities would be a start. Do the same with things like prostitution and human trafficking. You might not get rid of these gangs, but you'd go a long way to removing huge sources of income from them (i.e. the sorts of sources of income that are worth killing over). Or you could keep all these things highly illegal, and carry on with the methods that have worked so well over the last hundred or so years.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I would also suggest that giving parents and schools the power to enforce discipline once more would be useful. Kids know that they're untouchable these days - for example, laws against smacking, which some twisted do-gooders consider akin to child abuse, must be repealed at once. I'd even go as far as saying schools should be allowed to bring back the birch. I have also suggested in the past bringing back the death penalty. Maybe, on reflection, that would be going too far, but I do think we need to be far more enforcing on discipline. As a bonus, the teachers in our schools will also be able to do their job without intimidation from some noisy little bastard of a child who hasn't the first idea how to behave.

    How exactly is that going to help anything?:confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    Gangland crime isn't new, it's just that people forget that its always been around. Or when they do remember, they look back with ridiculous rose glasses; the Krays loved their mum, so the gangland murder they indluged in was all fine and dandy.

    On a similar note - I apologise for going off on a bit of a tangent - people nowadays are under the impression that young people now are so much worse than they were a generation ago. Delinquency and kids going off the rails is a new phenonomen. Bollocks it is! I'm currently reading reports in German archives from the late 1940s and there were huge concerns then about young people - recklessly wondering around the streets, seeking adventure with a whole load of false id cards and ration cards, getting in fights, fuelling the black market, picking up every STI going and endangering the nice little middle class youths who could fall under their influence. I suspect there were similar things going on in the UK at the time, or at least similar worries. And our generation is going to be spouting the same crap in 40, 50 years time, believing that youths never have been so dangerous as in the present, 'you didn't hear of any of that in my day!'.

    I'm not trying to make light of the huge problems we have now wih knives and guns, but I find the rose-tinted nostalgia that some people come out with hilarious.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Meryn - do you have a link to the article you're reading, please?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote: »
    Meryn - do you have a link to the article you're reading, please?

    I possibly have photocopies or notes I took in word, but it's all auf Deutsch. I'll look a few quotes up for you if you want to test your language skills :razz:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Build more and bigger prisons sharpish. Harsher sentences, prison shouldn't be pleasant. Place the husband wife partnership on a bloody pedestal instead of making it seem like just one among many equally valid partnerships. Make divorce harder. And of course get rid of all the red tape stopping police from doing their jobs, we want to see more Gene Hunts. 6a00c2252293c4604a00d4142e09b23c7f-320pi
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Meryn wrote: »
    On a similar note - I apologise for going off on a bit of a tangent - people nowadays are under the impression that young people now are so much worse than they were a generation ago. Delinquency and kids going off the rails is a new phenonomen. Bollocks it is! I'm currently reading reports in German archives from the late 1940s and there were huge concerns then about young people - recklessly wondering around the streets, seeking adventure with a whole load of false id cards and ration cards, getting in fights, fuelling the black market, picking up every STI going and endangering the nice little middle class youths who could fall under their influence. I suspect there were similar things going on in the UK at the time, or at least similar worries. And our generation is going to be spouting the same crap in 40, 50 years time, believing that youths never have been so dangerous as in the present, 'you didn't hear of any of that in my day!'.

    I'm not trying to make light of the huge problems we have now wih knives and guns, but I find the rose-tinted nostalgia that some people come out with hilarious.

    :yes:
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    No matter what might have led somebody to do a criminal/damaging act, most of the responsibility is still theirs. People always have a choice in what to do.
    Unless those youths have something that makes them unable to think rationally, like autism or chronic drunkedness, then they absolutely should be held accountable for their actions. I can't believe people are saying otherwise.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ok, here's a bit of background. Funnily enough, after the end of the second world war, Germany was in chaos. There were masses of people on the go - Displaced Persons, former POWs, German refugees from east of the Oder-Neisse Line who had been expelled from their homes in what is now Poland, and parts of Czechoslovakia, people who had been bombed out of their homes, people who had been evacuated during the war and were now trying to return to their homes. Therefore thousands of refugee camps were set up, many of which for the refugees and expellees. Obviously lots of children had lost their parents in the war and so were wondering around the streets,surviving how they could, and one of the problems with young people was seen to be that many pretended to be refugees from the Soviet Zone - East Germany - in order to get lodging and better rations in the camps. These were seen to be the cause of many social problems in the areas around the camps, and unsurprisingly the other camp residents and young people were easily tarred with the same brush and lumped in the 'anti-social' category.

    For example, in the town of Siegen, the town council was forever making compaints about the local camp, Camp Wellersberg, and how it was affecting the locals:

    (this excerpt is talking in more general terms than just young people, but the point about social problems and anti-social behaviour and stigmatisation of certain groups in the 40s remains the same)
    "Ein grosser Teil der Ehescheidungen ist auf die illegal zugewanderten und auf Lagerinsassen zurueckzufuehren. Dasselbe gilt fuer die erhebliche und erschreckende Zunahme der Geschlechtskrankenheiten. Die meisten Infektionsquellen stammen aus dem Durchgangslager. Fast jeder 4. Jugendliche in Siegen steht unter Beaufsichtigung des Jugendamtes.Es kann nachgewiesen werden, dass hieran weitgehend Insassen des Lagers oder illegal Eingewanderte Schuld sind.
    Die Zahl der uneheliche Geburten steigt erheblich. Es finden eine starke Mischung einheimischer Asozialer mit Asozialen aus dem Lager statt. Der Ergebnis der 3 1/2 Jahre Durchgangslager in Siegen ist eine nicht erst genug zu nehmende Zersetzung der im allgemeinen bodenstaendigen Siegner Bevoelkerung. Noch in Generationen wird Siegen darunter leiden, dass hier einmal ein Durchgangslager eingeichtet wurde."

    (Letter from Siegen town to the Land Refugee Committee, 3rd March 1949, Stadtarchiv Siegen, E917)

    I will translate later if anyone wants. If you want to have a go yourself, this is a good online dictionary: http://dict.leo.org

    Again, sorry for the digression....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And what exactly has this got to do with the UK?

    The murder rate has more than doubled since the 60's. Sure, the past wasn't as great as it is made out to be by many but we do live in an increasingly violent society.
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