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:yes: Goes without saying really.
Exactly.
This is all part and parcel of the game. Just as blaming the referee is.
Of course, had this been Ronaldo instead of Malouda, we all know who would have been blamed in this thread
Why?
Why is it okay to have a go at the ref for a mistake, but not at anyone else on that pitch?
My point wasn't that Liverpool should have scored another goal, my point was that they had plenty of opportuinty to do so, but failed. Plenty of mistake lead up to that one decision but you are all focussing on the decision and not on the rest of the 90 minutes of the game.
Poll was often accused of seeing himself as the centre of attention in the game and here you are all doing just that - putting the referee at the centre.
You think that you did an excellent job but the fact that you took stick suggests that not every decision was greeted with thanks and applause, was it?
It's how the game works. Referees accept that, so long as players do too. This thread takes it too far IMHO.
So it's okay to assault the referee because if they can't handle it....? That is where this lack of respect leads, like it or not.
Surprised you could type that insightful adddition to the thread. Considering that it looks like your head was up your arse...
Couldn't agree more and from what i hear many "top" referees would like to. However, when you look at the most recent public example of one changing his mind (Fulham/Arsenal penalty a couple of years ago?), the referee got serious stick for that too.
People will have a go at players for making serious mistakes (e.g. Beckham 98), but the point is that the game should be decided on the mistakes of players, not the ineptitude of the referees.
The referee in question is a professional, and as such should act as one. If a professional in my line of work made a mistake as serious as that it is likely that they would be sacked. I don't see anything wrong in condemning him for making a serious error of judgment, because if any other public figure did that it would be the same thing.
I don't believe in respecting referees simply because they are referees, if they cock up then players should be allowed to criticise, but it should only be through the captain. That's the difference between football and other sports, though- because the captains are allowed to speak to referees freely in rugby, cricket, etc, you don't get the situation where 12 or 13 players are surrounding the ref.
Liverpool's job was to score more legitimate goals than the opposition, and they did that job. Therefore the referee should be financially liable for the loss of two points. My point isn't about Liverpool, though, as Liverpool have had plenty of dodgy decisions in their favour. Referees should be more accountable for their mistakes, and dropping the ref to the Championship for a game or three isn't good enough.
I think referees expect to be respected even when they make serious mistakes. Look at Poll, who threw his toys out of his pram because the FA didn't try and defend his World Cup shambles. Anywhere else and he'd have been sacked by the company, but the professional body responsible for paying referees decided to keep him as he was "the best ref in the UK".
So what are you looking for? Automatons? Isn't one of the complainst about referees that they apply the letter of the law...?
Don't you think that you are blowing this out of proportion? he made an error of judgment in a split second decision making process. There aren't many other professions like that, are there?
... and that is the problem with football that isn't shared by many other sports. That is precisely what you should be doing.
No they didn't. Chelsea's goal was as legitimate as any other scored at the weekend. I'm not sure it's possible to score when it isn't TBH. The referee's decision is final. That's how the game works.
The referee in this case has made himself the centre of attention by such an awful decision, if that "penalty" hadn't being given no-one would have mentioned the ref, he's made the game about him because by such a shite decision he's changed the result and changed the amount of points each club has got as a result of the match.
Is this all because scum fans hate the scouse?? I wonder!! Obviously its football, its how the game is, right or wrong thats the game, I was getting stick from the sides and I soon put them in their place, I had their own players telling me I was doing a good job and to ignore the touchline, shit happens, no-ones going to like every decision even if its right!! At one point a player got fouled, I waited, played advantage and the guy tried curling it in the top corner, it went narrowly wide, touchline shouting at me it was a foul, I shouted back "you wouldn't be saying that if he'd buried it in the top corner", he soon shut up!! Football is Football, I absolutely loved the shit I got and if my ankle never properly recovers I will seriously think about doing the ref and coaching courses just so I can stay involved in the game!! I've noticed you do this in a few threads recently, take someones point and change it around to make the person look like he is saying something nobheady (if thats a word lol), where have I put anything about assaulting a referee???
When I say shit, I mean shit, a bit of verbal, a player/manager/fans/neutrals/media coming out and saying that was a shite decision and he cost Liverpool the game (using this example).
He's the centre of attention becausethe focus has been placed on him by the fans and the media. No-one seems to have noticed every other mistake which was made during the game.
The referee is only ever just one of 23 people on the pitch (not including linesmen) plus the coaches.
My point is that undue attention is given to the referee's decisions. No-one gives as much focus to, for example, the teams that the coahces put out, the tacttics they used, the set plays, the passing, the shots on/off target etc. Every single one of those moments is equally as important as that one decision.
The result went against Liverpool, I should be pleased that the ref fucked a decision. I'm not, I think that refereeing could improve at times. That said, I don't think that he should be made a scapegoat for what happened over 90 minutes.
Sorry, my point is that the verbals in this thread and like those you faced are the thin edge of the wedge. It leads to assualt - it leads to bullying and intimifdation and it's why so many refs have given up.
Too many people see the dissection of decisions on MOTD (for example) and think that it's okay to abuse a referee. They listen to Alan Green giving the referee stick, week in week out, and think that it's okay to do the same.
It isn't.
That's half the reason that 1-0 is never enough, you can't legislate for a big goalkeeping cock up, a bobbly pitch or a refereeing mistake - all of these things will always happen. If you score a second then the chances of two massive fuck ups like that happening are pretty much zero. Human error and activity decide football matches, and it was as much down to Gerrard ballooning his shot than it was the referee's honest mistake.
Best not to forget that the Scouse got a very dodgy free kick at Villa just last week that Gerrard smacked into the top corner to get them the win, just incase they miss out on the title by two points and start whinging.
If a manager makes serious errors of judgment he gets sacked. And to say that managers don't get the flak, well, don't be ridiculous- look at the pressure Jol is under, for instance, for making smaller errors than Styles.
So why not referees? If he can't get the decisions right (and lets face it, this isn't the first almighty blunder by Styles) then he shouldn't be getting paid a very large salary to do his job.
It isn't anything to do with Styles or Liverpool, its about the standard of refereeing in this country, and the abject lack of accountability that referees have for their mistakes. Bolton were relegated in 2001 because a referee disallowed a valid goal in the home game against Everton- that dropped point relegated the team. Was the referee held accountable for his error? Was he balls, Bolton went down and everyone was happy.
If referees make disgraceful mistakes like that then they should be disciplined publicly. Dropping him to the Championship for a game means nothing, and indeed goes to show that the Premiershit thinks its far more important than it is. Styles has proven he is not fit to referee in the Premier League, and he should be barred until he can prove that he is.
That said, though, I think The Sun's pathetic attempt to cast doubts on the ref's impartiality were disgusting. Styles is incompetent, and I think he might be bent, but he hasn't been bribed by Roman.
You say MoTD dissect the refereeing decisions, they also dissect inept tactics, poor defending, poor movement up-front, poor tracking back by midfielders, so I really don't get your point!!
Oh and this argument from me is in no way because it will be an excuse at the end of the season to Liverpool not winning the title/getting into champs league! I firmly believe that the majority of poor decisions even themselves out over the season, more or less! The point is he's made a massive cock up and I don't understand people defending him and saying its Liverpool fault for not putting the ball in the back of the net twice!!
Take it you missed MOTD 2 last night then, with magnified replays showing conclusively that the ball hit Brown on the chest. Every pundit in the studio agreed. Unlike sensationalist Sky who seemed to want to show the worst angles ever, at full speed, without any magnification. Andy Gray ruined the rest of the match by constantly talking about the 'handball'. Looking back now he must feel like a right dick.
Howard Webb should be commended for getting a tough decision correct, and he didn't even need a magnified replay.
But if you can tell me it was a handball and give me conclusive proof (not grainy ambiguous stills from the rags) then maybe I'll change my stance.
Maybe the MOTD replays are an evil BBC conspiracy?
I wish I'd put money on this comment when I saw the match, cos I just knew this was coming.
Amazing how those ABU glasses will make things clearer.
Interesting that last season United had 3 penalties given against them at OT, 2 of which were contentious to say the very least. Chelsea and Liverpool had ZERO penalties given against them at their home grounds, despite there being quite a few that should been given e.g. Saha at Anfield, John Terry thinking he's a goalkeeper at Stamford Bridge. Yet there's no witch hunt against them.
Howard Webb also has ann amazing game at Reading, and when Reading missed their penalty I counted four hammers players in the box. And that after not sending Green off for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. Legend!
Still having trouble with the eyesight I see, or else you have absolutely no concept of the rules of the game whatsoever.
Alan Wiley is another weak minded moron, pandering to a consensus, and revelling in the attention and praise he'll get from ABU clowns like you for reprimanding Ronaldo. Almost as bad as Steve Bennett.
The Chelsea decision was a poor one as well. The goal should have stood as Kalou was behind play. In any case he should have got benefit of the doubt - something refs never seem to apply.
I think Wiley showed courage to book a Man Utd player. Maybe Fergie will get him sacked, like he did with d'Urso.
how is that then if he was fouled? i've seen replays of it over and over, and even the skysports and bbc commentators who love a bit of sensationalism agreed there was contact. it wasn't a penalty because it was outside the box, but it was a free kick.
as for the chelsea decision, well if you think that was offside, you're a total moron with no understanding of the game whatsoever. which explains alot tbh.
and the ref didn't give the blatant penalty in the first half. shocker all round.
I agree. The sending off was harsh, but I doubt if Obi Mikel will have it rescinded, because it was still dangerous. If Evra hadn't of jumped away and instead tried to put his foot through the ball, he could have ended up with a broken ankle.
On the other hand, Joe Cole should have had two red cards in that match but escaped with none. One for bringing down Evra inside in the box when he was running in on goal, and the other for scything down Ronaldo from behind along his achilles.
Chelsea were dirty fucks yesterday, but probably the most sickening thing they did was not give the ball back after we had kicked it out for an injury.
It's a shame poor refereeing takes away from what was a comprehensively dominant performance by United, before and after the sending off.