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old story but i jsut found, amazingly scary
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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I'd just like to point out that while the US is busily classifying the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist group, they happily do business with Saudi Arabia and say nothing about the Mutaween.
If you look at Saudi involvement and funding of Islamist groups, its scary; 15 of the 19 highjackers on 9-11 were Saudi-born (Ali, 2002); Wahabi clerics are financed by Saudi capital to spread their literalist interpretation of the Qu'ran (Hussain, 2007); There is evidence of Saudi Da'wah organisations actively looking to recruit Western-born Muslims to learn 'Arabic', but mainly to spread their Islamist ideology (Hussain, 2007).
Whereever you look on the topic of Islamic Political Radicalism today, Saudi Arabia is not far away. They also have a highly segregated society that discriminates against Black African Muslims, who make up the large majority of Saudi's poorest (Hussain, 2007; Sardar, 2005).
BTW anyone near Hammersmith Apollo might like to take a look at the benefit gig listed here.
Its a comedy show, organised to get BAE systems back in the dock after the investigation into their 'arms to Saudi' affairs was curtailed due to 'national security issues'.
Add that to ultra fundamentalist religious police, countless reports of beatings and torture (sometimes to our own citizens), barbaric use of the death penalty and more, and you have to wonder how much will our governments be prepared to put up with for the sake of cheap oil or Eurofighter sales.
There may be good reasons to criticise the Saudi's, but given their willingness to top Al-Q who operate in their country its a bit of a red herring to bring up the nationality of the bombers as a criticism of the bombers.
I'm not caling for Saudi to be bombed and attacked in any shape or form, but quite how the US and British governments manage to call it a valuable friend in the war against terror and keep a straight face is quite remarkable.
Because the Saudis are not supporters of Al-Q and are rather hostile to them (perhaps because Al-Q are a great fan of overthrowing the House of Saud).
If Bin laden arrived in riyadh tomorrow I suspect it would be tea and crumpets with the Royal Family, but a quick trial (if lucky) followed by the loss of some rather vital parts of his body. You need to seperate the policies of the Government from the actions of people whom even that Government regard as criminal.
But we all know that Sadam wasn't harbouring terrorists either, or had WMD's or missiles capable of attacking Britain within 40 mins. In fact, the official line at the end was regime change. Saudi Arabia has a pretty shitty regime when you think about it.
Governments are there to serve the interests of their citizens not act (ironically) as global morality police
Who's saying anything different?
There is Wahabi support for Bin Laden inside Saudi, however some of these Wahabis see the house of Saud as far superior at the moment to Western decadence.
When we are talking about radical Islamic ideologies we are not always talking about a single gang of people who all agree. Its one of the scariest things about such an ideology.
While I realise the title puts alot of people off, I recommend looking at Ziauddin Sardar & Merryl Wyn Davis's "Why do people hate America?"
Now before people jump down my throats about being anti-American, the reason the book is interesting is that it looks at WHY some groups feel the way they do about America; this does not mean the authors agree.
It is an interesting document because it gives an insight into the ideological workings of particular groups and peoples; something you don't have to agree with to find important and interesting. Indeed I doubt few people would dispute the idea that knowledge about a situation is always desirable.
No-one. Am I not allowed to comment unless I'm picking an argument with someone now? Well here you go, I'm picking an argument with you now, ya bastard.
Fair point... I'm so used to arguing (or hopefully debating) with you its a pavlovian reflex...
No they are serving the interests of their citizens to a considerable degree, how would being hostile to Saudi Arabia help the average American?
well afghanistan attacked america to start with?
I'd be surprised if Afghanistan could've afforded a plane that would reach America.
But how about all the other countries Territt? How did the bombing of those nations serve the interests of US citizens exactly?
Going back to the article though, if those people felt that it was better to let 15 schoolgirls die a terrifying, horrific death because 'religious' police felt their attire might offend the rescuers outside, I just hope that their interpretation on the will of Allah is way off the mark - otherwise he is one sick mother f*cker.
If half-naked boys had been in there, I am sure it would not have been a problem rescuing them. This is an example of a male dominated religion existing to subjugate women.