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old story but i jsut found, amazingly scary

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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Madness! :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Complete madness!
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    I'm not really surprised. Some of the countries over there are insane like that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah this one's been doing the rounds for a fair few years now; the Mutaween (religious police) are like the Mafia in Saudi, and their Wahabi (literalist Islamic theology, and state doctrine of Saudi Arabia) inspired jurisprudence has a well documented legacy of oppression and violence.

    I'd just like to point out that while the US is busily classifying the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist group, they happily do business with Saudi Arabia and say nothing about the Mutaween.

    If you look at Saudi involvement and funding of Islamist groups, its scary; 15 of the 19 highjackers on 9-11 were Saudi-born (Ali, 2002); Wahabi clerics are financed by Saudi capital to spread their literalist interpretation of the Qu'ran (Hussain, 2007); There is evidence of Saudi Da'wah organisations actively looking to recruit Western-born Muslims to learn 'Arabic', but mainly to spread their Islamist ideology (Hussain, 2007).

    Whereever you look on the topic of Islamic Political Radicalism today, Saudi Arabia is not far away. They also have a highly segregated society that discriminates against Black African Muslims, who make up the large majority of Saudi's poorest (Hussain, 2007; Sardar, 2005).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Saudi is by far the most worrying, brutal and extreme regime in the region. Time we stopped being so friendly to it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We are far too in cahoots with the house of Saud for that to happen.

    BTW anyone near Hammersmith Apollo might like to take a look at the benefit gig listed here.

    Its a comedy show, organised to get BAE systems back in the dock after the investigation into their 'arms to Saudi' affairs was curtailed due to 'national security issues'.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    they do my head in
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What makes me laugh is that not only most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi but it recently emerged that the no. 1 nationality of insurgents who go to fight against Allied forces in Iraq is... you guess it. Saudi.

    Add that to ultra fundamentalist religious police, countless reports of beatings and torture (sometimes to our own citizens), barbaric use of the death penalty and more, and you have to wonder how much will our governments be prepared to put up with for the sake of cheap oil or Eurofighter sales.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yep most of the IRA were Irish - why didn't we bombard Dublin?

    There may be good reasons to criticise the Saudi's, but given their willingness to top Al-Q who operate in their country its a bit of a red herring to bring up the nationality of the bombers as a criticism of the bombers.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You know I'm not exactly a fan of bombing other countries. But the fallacy of the war on Iraq and Afghanistan is even harder to justify when you consider the source of much if not most of the terrorism in ME and responsible for 9/11 came from a country that not only has managed to stay invasion free but it is actually named as an ally in the war on terror.

    I'm not caling for Saudi to be bombed and attacked in any shape or form, but quite how the US and British governments manage to call it a valuable friend in the war against terror and keep a straight face is quite remarkable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    You know I'm not exactly a fan of bombing other countries. But the fallacy of the war on Iraq and Afghanistan is even harder to justify when you consider the source of much if not most of the terrorism in ME and responsible for 9/11 came from a country that not only has managed to stay invasion free but it is actually named as an ally in the war on terror.

    I'm not caling for Saudi to be bombed and attacked in any shape or form, but quite how the US and British governments manage to call it a valuable friend in the war against terror and keep a straight face is quite remarkable.

    Because the Saudis are not supporters of Al-Q and are rather hostile to them (perhaps because Al-Q are a great fan of overthrowing the House of Saud).

    If Bin laden arrived in riyadh tomorrow I suspect it would be tea and crumpets with the Royal Family, but a quick trial (if lucky) followed by the loss of some rather vital parts of his body. You need to seperate the policies of the Government from the actions of people whom even that Government regard as criminal.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the government of Saudi is happy to facilitate and maintain anything that doesnt threaten their oppunlence; al-quaeda threaten this because their view of the Caliphate is one that is dead-set against all forms of life other than theirs. Wahabism by contrast sees the house of Saud as a Muslim power bloc that could be co-opted into a transcendent Caliphate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    religious lunatics
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because the Saudis are not supporters of Al-Q and are rather hostile to them (perhaps because Al-Q are a great fan of overthrowing the House of Saud).

    But we all know that Sadam wasn't harbouring terrorists either, or had WMD's or missiles capable of attacking Britain within 40 mins. In fact, the official line at the end was regime change. Saudi Arabia has a pretty shitty regime when you think about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What more evidence do you need that someone only becomes a "tyrant" when they disagree with America politically, or are hostile to their business interests? It has fuck all to do with freedom and human rights, and I don't see how anyone could suggest it does and keep a straight face. I suspect that Bush has talk out against Hugo Chavez more often than the Saudi regime.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why would you expect anything different?

    Governments are there to serve the interests of their citizens not act (ironically) as global morality police
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What more evidence do you need that someone only becomes a "tyrant" when they disagree with America politically, or are hostile to their business interests? It has fuck all to do with freedom and human rights, and I don't see how anyone could suggest it does and keep a straight face. I suspect that Bush has talk out against Hugo Chavez more often than the Saudi regime.

    Who's saying anything different?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But that's not what US governments (or British, or any other) past and present have been doing have they? They have simply been looking after the interests of corporations and political ideologies of their circle of powerful friends.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think its misleading to talk about Islamic Political Radicalism having only one front, i.e: Al Quaeda. The history of such Radicalism is frought with internal power struggles and bloody feuds as well as fundamental ideological differences.

    There is Wahabi support for Bin Laden inside Saudi, however some of these Wahabis see the house of Saud as far superior at the moment to Western decadence.

    When we are talking about radical Islamic ideologies we are not always talking about a single gang of people who all agree. Its one of the scariest things about such an ideology.

    While I realise the title puts alot of people off, I recommend looking at Ziauddin Sardar & Merryl Wyn Davis's "Why do people hate America?"

    Now before people jump down my throats about being anti-American, the reason the book is interesting is that it looks at WHY some groups feel the way they do about America; this does not mean the authors agree.

    It is an interesting document because it gives an insight into the ideological workings of particular groups and peoples; something you don't have to agree with to find important and interesting. Indeed I doubt few people would dispute the idea that knowledge about a situation is always desirable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thats just daft
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Who's saying anything different?

    No-one. Am I not allowed to comment unless I'm picking an argument with someone now? Well here you go, I'm picking an argument with you now, ya bastard. :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No-one. Am I not allowed to comment unless I'm picking an argument with someone now? Well here you go, I'm picking an argument with you now, ya bastard. :p

    Fair point... I'm so used to arguing (or hopefully debating) with you its a pavlovian reflex...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    But that's not what US governments (or British, or any other) past and present have been doing have they? They have simply been looking after the interests of corporations and political ideologies of their circle of powerful friends.

    No they are serving the interests of their citizens to a considerable degree, how would being hostile to Saudi Arabia help the average American?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How was the bombing of Guatemala, Indonesia, Cuba, Congo, Peru, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Grenada, Libya, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Afghanistan or Iraq (to name but a few of the nations that have found themselves the object of the attention of the USAF in the last few decades) helpful in any way to the citizens of the United States? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    How was the bombing of Guatemala, Indonesia, Cuba, Congo, Peru, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Grenada, Libya, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Afghanistan or Iraq (to name a few) helpful in any way to the citizens of the United States? :confused:


    well afghanistan attacked america to start with?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Er... no it didn't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Territt wrote: »
    well afghanistan attacked america to start with?

    I'd be surprised if Afghanistan could've afforded a plane that would reach America.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Your telling me Afghanistan didn?t help train, supply and then after help to hide the people responsible for the 911 attacks?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Saudi millionaires did.

    But how about all the other countries Territt? How did the bombing of those nations serve the interests of US citizens exactly?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aside from the way this topic has headed, I feel the story indicates the absolute insanity of their religon in that part of the world. It's not just Saudis that have incomprehensible interpretations of their religion - Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan etc are just as bad.

    Going back to the article though, if those people felt that it was better to let 15 schoolgirls die a terrifying, horrific death because 'religious' police felt their attire might offend the rescuers outside, I just hope that their interpretation on the will of Allah is way off the mark - otherwise he is one sick mother f*cker.

    If half-naked boys had been in there, I am sure it would not have been a problem rescuing them. This is an example of a male dominated religion existing to subjugate women.
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