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Cannabis U-Turn and mental health???

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
I don't take drugs so don't normally peruse this section, but i saw on ITN news Gordon Brown is going to be re-classifying Cannabis upto Class B. Also, i was watching Richard and Judy the other day and they happened to be doing a segment on the damage cannabis (specifically Skunk, but not limited to it) can do to your brain, particularly while growing up, like at 14-21 while the brain is developing. And they basically said the reason for the increased number of section people and increased number of mental health problems was all down to drug use.

I just wondered what everyone thought of this? I dont mean Richard and Judy, i just meant the supposed correlation between mental health problems and drug use and the governments plans.

(If this should be in Politics, feel free to move it, i wasnt sure where it belonged)
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think there is a correlation between canabis use and mental health issues. There is evidence to suggest a link, but this evidence was already known when the Blair government down-graded canabis to Class C.

    I think Gordon Browns sudden interest in tightening up on canabis is more to do with wrong footing David Cameron and pleasing the Daily Mail, than tightening up the drug laws.

    Personally, I think he is wasting his time. Class A,B or C, lots of people enjoy a smoke and will continue to do so.

    :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Awesome, make the average, harmless, small time cannabis user into a criminal if caught with a Class B.

    Clever, clever move.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do think it's worrying that younger and younger children are getting hold of and regularly using stronger and stronger cannabis. I don't see much wrong with an adult having a smoke now and then, or when ever, but I do worry that cannabis really does damage adolescent brains. Out of the people I know from growing up, the ones who smoked cannabis all have majorly worse mental health problems than those I know who didn't.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,248 Skive's The Limit
    Making it class B again will do fuck all.

    What downgrading it did do was give a bit of perspective. Drug calssifictaion is a mess, ecstasy in the same class as crack cocaine? What a fucking joke.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Alls that will do is waste more police time. I imagine they will no longer be able to do the on the spot caution thing and will have to waste time dragging everybody caught with an eighth down the slammer. Useless.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »

    Drug calssifictaion is a mess, ecstasy in the same class as crack cocaine & heroin!!? What a fucking joke.

    :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thought it might be a good time to repost the results of a recent study by Nutt and Blackmore, with the most dangerous drug at the top, and the least dangerous at the bottom:

    1: Heroin
    2: Cocaine
    3: Barbiturates
    4: Street Methadone
    5: Alcohol
    6: Ketamine
    7: Benzodiazepines
    8: Amphetamines
    9: Tobacco
    10: Buprenorphine
    11: Cannabis
    12: Solvents
    13: 4-MTA
    14: LSD
    15: Methylphenidate
    16: Anabolic steroids
    17: GHB
    18: Ecstasy
    19: Alkyl Nitrates
    20: Khat

    And this table shows them with the current classifications:

    udrugs.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes there does seem to be a link between heavy use when a person is a teenager and later mental health issues. But what has the drug law actually got to do with this? When the Science and Technology Select Committee asked the government recently for any evidence that the law was a deterant they could produce none, not one single piece of evidence that the law works at all.

    Moving it up will make no difference what so ever to use (use has gone down since it was moved to Class C) and if you live in a city it will make no difference to the Police either.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    -kenny- wrote: »
    stoners (stonners)!

    :lol:

    its a load of balls ..but i myself think its pretty worrying that people are getting heavier into it younger and younger.. and only time will really tell what will come of that tho

    either way fuckin around with the classifications won't solve anything, people will still buy sell and smoke the stuff .. wate of everyones time imo
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Making it class B again will do fuck all.

    What downgrading it did do was give a bit of perspective. Drug calssifictaion is a mess, ecstasy in the same class as crack cocaine? What a fucking joke.

    Completely agree with you

    There are more alcohol related deaths than ecsatsy ! and ecstacy isn't physically addictive either its just a happy drug

    Making it a B will only mean that small time or harmless users are gonna get bigger fines and be wasting police time/ cell spaces. In my opinion i dont think they are the real criminals in this situation.

    Weed like anything will do funny shit to you if you smoke a lot of it, its like if you eat too many cakes your gonna get fat. If your sensible with things then its all good.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Completely agree with you

    There are more alcohol related deaths than ecsatsy ! and ecstacy isn't physically addictive either its just a happy drug

    Making it a B will only mean that small time or harmless users are gonna get bigger fines and be wasting police time/ cell spaces. In my opinion i dont think they are the real criminals in this situation.

    Weed like anything will do funny shit to you if you smoke a lot of it, its like if you eat too many cakes your gonna get fat. If your sensible with things then its all good.

    ...but

    how many people drink alcohol? and how many take ecstasy? Considering alcohol is legal, a good deal of the population are free to drink it. More people will kill themselves with alcohol, because there are legally allowed to do so. Ecstasy isn't legal. People are not legally allowed to take the drug, therefore the number of people taking it is definatley going to drop below the number of people drinking alcohol. More people die from alcohol simply because more people drink than they do drop!

    The consumption levels are not on the same level. Thats what I'm getting at.

    Weed, the stuff fucks with your head. What chance it has in stopping the average everyday stoner picking a 20 bag up I don't know. It's a serious habit drug that can lead to long term psychological problems and I can tell from mates being in solid routine, smoking it everyday! Reclassify it, maybe Brown can lower Ecstasy to B or C as its (known) psychological effects are not as prudent as they are in cannabis. How many times have you heard weed part an parcel of a schizophrenics/murderers rise to crime? Alcohol the same. Swap weed and alcohol, with ecstasy! Its so bleeding obvious! Why!? Why!? is ecstasy illegal and class A of all things!? Its the piss take of the century surely!


    Another thing that rifles me. When a politician admits to smoking cannabis, why is it such a big deal? So what! They smoked a little ganja at university, so fucking what! It doesn't mean they're a bad politician or a bad person! I bet 99% of parliament are in the same boat!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Box wrote: »
    The consumption levels are not on the same level. Thats what I'm getting at.

    What's needed when arguing the point JustThinking..X was stating, is ratios.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kiezo wrote: »
    What's needed when arguing the point JustThinking..X was stating, is ratios.

    eh?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MancDan wrote: »
    eh?

    Example: for every 1000 people that use ecstasy, 1 dies. For every 1000 that use alcohol, 10 die.

    Cba Googling for exact figures, but they ain't hard to find.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kiezo wrote: »
    Example: for every 1000 people that use ecstasy, 1 dies. For every 1000 that use alcohol, 10 die.

    Cba Googling for exact figures, but they ain't hard to find.

    I have a feeling it's still higher for alcohol, whether total or per 1000 users.


    EDIT:
    » How many people die from using ecstasy? Isn't it very risky?
    The UK figures suggest seven ecstasy-related deaths per million users. This compares to 625 alcohol-related deaths per million drinkers.
    From http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ecstasy/faq.htm... dunno how accurate that is, but it's definitely striking.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,248 Skive's The Limit
    MancDan wrote: »
    eh?

    It's called risk. The measure of risk in an activity has nothing to do with the number of people who partake in that activity.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Making it class B again will do fuck all.

    What downgrading it did do was give a bit of perspective. Drug calssifictaion is a mess, ecstasy in the same class as crack cocaine? What a fucking joke.

    :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kiezo wrote: »
    Example: for every 1000 people that use ecstasy, 1 dies. For every 1000 that use alcohol, 10 die.

    Cba Googling for exact figures, but they ain't hard to find.

    And most of those will be from poly-drug use, MDMA by itself is not very dangerous.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah, I'm sure I read somewhere that if you took 1000 alcohol drinkers and 1000 ecstasy users you more people would die through the drink...

    But its all subjective really isnt it...
    A person who binge drinks 3 times a week vs a person who does pills a couple of times a year... or vise versa...

    It cant be easy to get clear statistics.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    JamesZero wrote: »
    It cant be easy to get clear statistics.

    Its nigh on impossible to get proper evidence about MDMA, there are no users around who only use it and nothing else. In fact I've attached a very interesting report which casts a shadow over the theory that MDMA causes depression, if you compare MDMA (with other drugs) users against non-MDMA users (with other drugs) it seems the MDMA doesnt make much impact.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just had a scan through it mate (don't have much time cos I'm at work)

    Looks like an interesting article!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    Its nigh on impossible to get proper evidence about MDMA, there are no users around who only use it and nothing else. In fact I've attached a very interesting report which casts a shadow over the theory that MDMA causes depression, if you compare MDMA (with other drugs) users against non-MDMA users (with other drugs) it seems the MDMA doesnt make much impact.

    How could something so good be so liberal! Could a comedown be the only real negative side effect of MDMA? Hasn't it been 30 something years, still no 'real' conclusion's beens made on the risks of longterm use, yet it still remains Class A?!

    Why? What are the reasons? Feeling elated for a few hours? If they controlled the drug as they did alcohol, any risk involved would shrink even further through regulation and
    they'd even gain from it via tax wouldnt they?! This is what I don't understand. Imagine! The cost of a legal pill in the Budget!

    Who's taken browns place as chancellor now anyway?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm happy about the change if it does happen cause so many of my friends smoke it and you can see how itchanges them
    Their much more paranoid about things than they used to be, their eyes are left squinted if they are heavy users & generally it is bad for their mental health, even though many don't see the links.
    One friend who has been smoking it for about 5 years is now schizophrenia because of it, which is quite scary, especially as this has lead to him threatining to kill his sisters before.
    It wrecks your bran & i don't think it should have ever been made class C, although i doudt the class of it will make most people stop smoking it as many are adicted and need it each day to keep calm.
    Police don't even do anything when they know people have it on them, maybe thats the law but its kind of wrong, they just look away
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    playdead wrote: »
    I'm happy about the change if it does happen cause so many of my friends smoke it and you can see how itchanges them

    But thats the point... do you think that even if they went as far as making it a class A any of your friends would be bothered?

    I'm sure it wouldnt change any of there smoking habits at all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't know anyone who's had mental problems from smoking weed who wasn't unbalanced in the first place, so I'm not convinced.

    And if the increase in stronger strains is causing problems...all the more reason to legalise it and regulate the strength of what is sold.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    playdead wrote: »
    I'm happy about the change if it does happen cause so many of my friends smoke it and you can see how itchanges them

    And the change is going to rectify this, how exactly? Do you think they're going to go "Shit boys, it's been upgraded! Time to pack it in!"?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kiezo wrote: »
    And the change is going to rectify this, how exactly? Do you think they're going to go "Shit boys, it's been upgraded! Time to pack it in!"?

    :lol:

    Its a sensible point, just becuase its been upgraded doesnt mean less people will smoke it. The best way to try and reduce canabis consumption is to understand why people smoke it in the first place.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MancDan wrote: »
    How could something so good be so liberal! Could a comedown be the only real negative side effect of MDMA? Hasn't it been 30 something years, still no 'real' conclusion's beens made on the risks of longterm use, yet it still remains Class A?!

    Why? What are the reasons? Feeling elated for a few hours? If they controlled the drug as they did alcohol, any risk involved would shrink even further through regulation and
    they'd even gain from it via tax wouldnt they?! This is what I don't understand. Imagine! The cost of a legal pill in the Budget!

    Who's taken browns place as chancellor now anyway?

    The dangers surrounding the use of MDMA arent clear, granted the risk of death is slight (especially if used sensibly) but that isnt the whole picture.

    Personally based on what I have read I dont believe the risk to the brain from moderate use of MDMA is very high. However you are messing with a part of the brain which wont grow back, and high doses can be clearly shown to be doing damage.

    As to why its illegal, why are any drugs illegal, its very largely racism, political power and ignorance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    playdead wrote: »
    I'm happy about the change if it does happen cause so many of my friends smoke it and you can see how itchanges them
    Their much more paranoid about things than they used to be, their eyes are left squinted if they are heavy users & generally it is bad for their mental health, even though many don't see the links.
    One friend who has been smoking it for about 5 years is now schizophrenia because of it, which is quite scary, especially as this has lead to him threatining to kill his sisters before.
    It wrecks your bran & i don't think it should have ever been made class C, although i doudt the class of it will make most people stop smoking it as many are adicted and need it each day to keep calm.
    Police don't even do anything when they know people have it on them, maybe thats the law but its kind of wrong, they just look away

    The evidence isnt clear, certainly there seems to be a correlation between high use and mental illness, however the causational links arent as strong as some people would suggest. That's not to say that high teenage use is a good idea, its clearly not.

    But thats far from the point, if cannabis is more dangerous than previously thought that is all the more reason to make supply legal, it is only through legal channels can we have any control on supply, quality and consumption.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kiezo wrote: »
    Example: for every 1000 people that use ecstasy, 1 dies. For every 1000 that use alcohol, 10 die.

    Cba Googling for exact figures, but they ain't hard to find.

    Exactly.

    On the subject of the Cannabis classfication, I saw this on the news whilst swimming in a pool in Kavos and nearly drowned.
    Fucking stupid, it won't stop people smoking it and it won't stop the people already smoking it, moving on to harder substances.
    All it will do is make the majority of harmless Cannabis smokers get fucked over more when they're caught and be viewed as evil drug addicts in the public eye.
    This move will destroy more people's lives, rather than 'save' them, as Gordon Brown thinks he is doing with his 'righteous' anti-drugs crusade.
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