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Consequences of the smoking ban...

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    No, a seperate internal area wouldn't break laws, I agree... But the smoke would still drift in to other areas.

    Not if it was a separate room.
    The Government will always interfere with businesses, but you could argue a lot of things with that. Taxes are taken from businesses, laws are put down to protect the welfare of the workers ect ect

    The fact is that most people are not arguing the smoking ban from an "I own a business and it will harm it" perspective. It's mostly from an "it's too much effort to walk to the door" perspective. No wonder there are so many obese people in the country if we whine about that much exercise.

    And it isn't a matter of liberties. People would whine if we made seperate indoor areas too.

    I'm arguing it's a poorly thought out, draconian law, that goes further than is necessary and - in my opinion - further than the governments remit should extend. How long before the nanny-state turns its eye elsewhere, on an area that hasn't been so successfully vilified - perhaps an area you're more concerned about? I'm waiting for ridiculous legislation to be brought in about alcohol. It'll be interesting to see all the drinkers who were happy to see smoking go suddenly sitting up and taking notice about their freedoms being eroded. It'll be interesting to see whether they brave hypocrisy to speak out.

    I'd be over-joyed if separate indoor areas were allowed. It'd show a rare glimmer of sense from the government.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    GM crops? Which companies and how have they impacted the planet?

    By GM I meant General Motors, owner of Chevrolet, Saab, GMC, Hummer, Cadillac, Vauxhall and Opel to name a few of their brands. I'd say they've done more than their fair share of ruining the planet for people wouldn't you agree?
    Namaste wrote:
    What right wing environmental groups are you talking about?... Explain further? (Not to derail the thread too much)

    I'm not - all I'm saying is there is nothing inherently left-wing in not wanting to fuck up the planet. If there was, then most people in the world would be left-wing.
    Namaste wrote:
    Right... Well how have pubs been affected then? Has there been a significant drop in profits?

    Little early to be able to do conclusive research isn't it? We've barely had the ban a fortnight. Plus remember that it is summer - I'm sure the pub trade experiences more business in the summer so perhaps the pinch won't be felt until later this year.
    Namaste wrote:
    If you want to talk about the plight of small businesses... Then surely you should be talking about Starbucks, Tesco and Wetherspoons for stealing it, not a smoking ban.

    I personally take the line with the companies you mentioned that their success is admirable and whilst a lot of people are losing out, sadly that's capitalism for you. What I don't agree with however is the government deliberately intervening and effectively hamstringing private businesses with ill thought-out legislation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote: »
    Cars serve a purpose, whereas cigarettes don't. Or would you be alright walking everywhere?:rolleyes:

    Well actually they both serve purposes. Cars get people around and smoking provides pleasure to millions of people in the world, jobs for people in the tabacco companies and money for tabacco farmers..

    Your vehement prejudice is dangerously close to bordering on the ridiculous and downright ignorant.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    By GM I meant General Motors, owner of Chevrolet, Saab, GMC, Hummer, Cadillac, Vauxhall and Opel to name a few of their brands. I'd say they've done more than their fair share of ruining the planet for people wouldn't you agree?
    I don't understand your point, nor do I understand your arguement.

    Apparently (and I cannot remember the source of this, but I can try and fish it out), Phillip Morris are actually the world's biggest polluters.
    Little early to be able to do conclusive research isn't it? We've barely had the ban a fortnight. Plus remember that it is summer - I'm sure the pub trade experiences more business in the summer so perhaps the pinch won't be felt until later this year.
    Nah, the ban's been in for a while in Wales and it's all been fine so far as I know. In fact it's a lot nicer.
    I personally take the line with the companies you mentioned that their success is admirable and whilst a lot of people are losing out, sadly that's capitalism for you. What I don't agree with however is the government deliberately intervening and effectively hamstringing private businesses with ill thought-out legislation.
    How is it ill thought out?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well actually they both serve purposes. Cars get people around and smoking provides pleasure to millions of people in the world, jobs for people in the tabacco companies and money for tabacco farmers..

    Your vehement prejudice is dangerously close to bordering on the ridiculous and downright ignorant.

    Child pornography also provides pleasure for some people and jobs for others.

    So does cocaine...

    So does the arms trade...

    Tobacco is in no way unique in that it provides jobs and even if it were, for the eighth million time you are NOT being forced to stop smoking, but just to smoke outside.

    If you wanna smoke inside, then have parties at your own house where other people who don't mind a smokey atmosphere can go (and it'll work out as cheaper).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Edit: i really can't be arsed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Edit: i really can't be arsed.
    Yeah the debate is getting boring now, just going round in circles.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Namaste wrote: »
    Yeah the debate is getting boring now, just going round in circles.

    My thoughts entirely. We all know where we stand and we're never going to agree.

    Any fancy a fag? :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    According to who exactly? This is what I believe in and who the fuck are you two to say what I can and cannot fight for? The beauty of a nominally 'free' society is that I can fight (peacefully and democratically) for whatever I want. Just because you think it unimportant does not mean to say that I, or indeed in this case millions of others, do.

    I think that the point being made is that while you are protesting about your right to kill other people being eroded, the right to protest itself (plus others) is being eroded.

    And no one said that you cannot argue for what you want, just pointing out that you may have your priorities a little awry.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So what? Are we not allowed to do anything harmful? It's the height of intolerance when adults can't enjoy a cigarette with a drink in their local.

    It's the height of intolerance when adults can't enjoy ten pints of beer before driving home[i/]...

    Point I am trying to make here is that your right infringes on others and the Govt has to define where the acceptable level of infringement is... in many cases that mean that the needs of others outweight what is a minimal impact on you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote: »
    Cars serve a purpose, whereas cigarettes don't. Or would you be alright walking everywhere?:rolleyes:

    Cigarettes serve a purpose.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lacy wrote: »
    Cigarettes serve a purpose.


    Indeed they do.. They shorten the life expectancy of people too stupid to live :p

    Oh, and they prevent Alzheimer's too, according to evidence.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MoK - do you have a link to that evidence?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Actually symptoms

    But then you will also find evidence which suggests that smoking double the risk. I just love scientific consensus :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Indeed they do.. They shorten the life expectancy of people too stupid to live :p

    They also stop me from having a nervous breakdown when I'm about to do something which would make me cack my pants...now if that's not a good purpose, I don't know what is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah but that only happens because you are already addicted. Smoking actually increases blood pressure...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah but that only happens because you are already addicted. Smoking actually increases blood pressure...
    And times like those are when I'm glad I'm addicted tbh. I'd rather be addicted and have something to stop me cacking my pants over it than not be and be cacking my pants anyway.

    And before you say it, in this situation, it is not something in which I would NOT be cacking my pants were I not already addicted.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are far more thereapeudic things you can do than smoke a cigarette. Nicotine may make you feel calm mentally but it has the opposite effects physically.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah, it the addiction which make the cigarette work some magic, rather than nicotine having that effect on anyone...

    Cacking your pants (aka fight or flight) is seomthing we all face at times. In your case nicotine affects your brain, whereas other people will find that a couple of deep breaths would be enough.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    There are far more thereapeudic things you can do than smoke a cigarette. Nicotine may make you feel calm mentally but it has the opposite effects physically.
    Like what? Tell me, oh wise one, and I'll tell you whether in this particular situation they would have been possible.

    Besides, I like smoking when I'm nervous, it gives me something to do with my hands. AND BEFORE YOU ALL SAY IT, my hands are generally fidgety when I'm nervous, they always have been. It also takes my mind of the fact that my stomach is churning and I get a dodgy stomach.

    MoK - a couple of deep breaths would never have been enough for this. There are some things I find it intensely difficult to do, the thing which was making me cack my pants is one of them, calming myself down is another.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Franki, I am a stressed out smoker, so I know exactly what you mean. However, medical evidence shows that your addiction is actually fooling your mind and that physicially your body continues to be in the "anxiety attack" state and smoking makes it worse. You just don't notice because you are high :)

    Christ, this takes me back to my stress counselling days...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Franki wrote: »
    Like what? Tell me, oh wise one, and I'll tell you whether in this particular situation they would have been possible.

    Besides, I like smoking when I'm nervous, it gives me something to do with my hands. AND BEFORE YOU ALL SAY IT, my hands are generally fidgety when I'm nervous, they always have been. It also takes my mind of the fact that my stomach is churning and I get a dodgy stomach.

    Particular situation? I'm not suggesting you buy a mat and do yoga everytime you feel nervous, as MoK has said, simple breathing techniques and thinking about a positive, calm place will help you come back to normality.

    And whether you like it or not, smoking is only a short term psychological cure for your nervousness, the physiological effects on the body will actually make you more prone to anxiety.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    Particular situation? I'm not suggesting you buy a mat and do yoga everytime you feel nervous, as MoK has said, simple breathing techniques and thinking about a positive, calm place will help you come back to normality.

    And whether you like it or not, smoking is only a short term psychological cure for your nervousness, the physiological effects on the body will actually make you more prone to anxiety.
    Simple breathing techniques and all that stuff don't work for me. They never have, even before I started smoking.

    I know smoking is only a short term cure, but I'd rather that than not have one that works at all. Besides, I had anxiety before I started, so *shrug*.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Franki wrote: »
    Besides, I had anxiety before I started, so *shrug*.


    Fairynuff, just to remind you though anxiety problems are very much curable and smoking only makes the problem worse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    Fairynuff, just to remind you though anxiety problems are very much curable and smoking only makes the problem worse.
    Oh aye, I know that. But I enjoy smoking anyhow, and I have no intention of stopping until I do stop enjoying it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Indeed they do.. They shorten the life expectancy of people too stupid to live :p

    Oh, and they prevent Alzheimer's too, according to evidence.

    Lol i'd rather live a short life doing what i wanted to do, than a long life where everything i do has to be good for me. Bor-ing!

    Although i don't understand this smoking when nervous thing, not Franki in particular, just it's never made me less nervous. Maybe my brain is immune.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lacy wrote: »
    Lol i'd rather live a short life doing what i wanted to do, than a long life where everything i do has to be good for me. Bor-ing!

    Yeah, that's my theory too. I can live my life "properly", or I can enjoy it... either way I'm still going to die.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah but that only happens because you are already addicted. Smoking actually increases blood pressure...

    But relaxes the muscles - nicotine is a bizarre drug but those are its properties.

    For some reason, the song from the Butt Out episode of South Park springs to mind...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lacy wrote: »
    Lol i'd rather live a short life doing what i wanted to do, than a long life where everything i do has to be good for me. Bor-ing!

    Lol, I try to justify the majority of things I do by saying that ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    There are far more thereapeudic things you can do than smoke a cigarette. Nicotine may make you feel calm mentally but it has the opposite effects physically.
    Lol like smoking pot?
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