Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨
Options

So he's gone....

2»

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote: »
    I thought we had some form of Democracy, ya know?

    Meaning what? That we should have a General Election? Not part of our "deomocracy". We have a party political system not a presidential one - therefore we don't elect a Prime Minister we vote for individual MPs who may/may not represent a political party.

    Added to that is there is no requirement for the Queen to ask the leader, of the party with the most seats, to form the Govt...
  • Options
    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    I also forgot that FPTP is hardly democracy. Oh well.

    I think we should have to right to at least vote on people from the elected party to rule. Like a public choice of labour candidates.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You mean we'd vote in the Labour MP we wanted in cabinet?

    Christ dude, how much time do you want to spend voting?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We could go for Athenian democracy - unfortunately we no longer have slaves to ban, but we could make sure women didn't get a say :D
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm absolutely delighted that Tony Blair has finally gone. I must admit I found his last day in office to be as nauseous as the man himself. The stage-managed standing ovation at the House of Commons, for example, which the hopelessly incompetent David Cameron encouraged Tories to join!

    I don't know how Gordon Brown will be. All I know is, he can't run the Government the same way he ran the Treasury. He can't control everything in government, no matter how hard he tries. I've found his reshuffle to be encouraging, and am glad that he forced out Patricia Hewitt. However, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. I'll come back to this question in a couple of months. If there's still no sign of improvement, his hopes of winning any General Election will be toast.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I'm absolutely delighted that Tony Blair has finally gone. I must admit I found his last day in office to be as nauseous as the man himself. The stage-managed standing ovation at the House of Commons, for example, which the hopelessly incompetent David Cameron encouraged Tories to join!

    The man had been PM for over ten years. He won three straight elections, he is the first Labour leader to ever have been returned to office.

    Right or wrong policy, for those achievements alone he deserved the ovation.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    The stage-managed standing ovation at the House of Commons, for example, which the hopelessly incompetent David Cameron encouraged Tories to join!

    The standing ovation in the commons was no way stage-managed. Nobody in the commons was forced to stand, however 99% of people beleived he deserved a standing ovation and done so because they felt he deserved it.

    Keeping in mind all Blair's faults and whatever you dislike about him, as MoK said, he was the most sucessful Labour Leader ever, and someone the Tories just couldn't beat.

    I think it was very sensible of the tories to give Tony Blair a standing ovation, after 10 years in opposition, and four leaders later,they know better than anyone what a clever politican Tony Blair is.

    :thumb:
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Right or wrong policy, for those achievements alone he deserved the ovation.
    He deserved nothing. The fact he was able to win three elections is meaningless. He's not the first Prime Minister to manage it. Remember Mrs Thatcher? I don't recall there being any stage-managed standing ovations in the House of Commons when she was booted out.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    He deserved nothing. The fact he was able to win three elections is meaningless. He's not the first Prime Minister to manage it. Remember Mrs Thatcher? I don't recall there being any stage-managed standing ovations in the House of Commons when she was booted out.

    Blair didn't get booted out, he left on his own accord. Of course there was pressure on him but he didn't suffer nearly as much revolt among the back benchers and cabinet alike as Thatcher did.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    The fact he was able to win three elections is meaningless.

    Three successive elections, again how many others have done the same?
    Remember Mrs Thatcher? I don't recall there being any stage-managed standing ovations in the House of Commons when she was booted out.

    Given that she was stabbed in the back by her own party and was forced to leave, rather than going of her own accord, they departures are hardly comparable.

    NB Last standing ovation was for John Wakeham, do you know what he had done...?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NB Last standing ovation was for John Wakeham, do you know what he had done...?

    As a guess was it when he returned to the Chamber after being seriously injured in the IRA bomb at Brighton?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As a guess was it when he returned to the Chamber after being seriously injured in the IRA bomb at Brighton?

    Yep, he got an ovation for not dying in a bomb blast and returning to work.

    Blair runs the country for ten years and SG thinks it's a little OT for parliament to recognise that...
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blair runs the country for ten years and SG thinks it's a little OT for parliament to recognise that...
    Under Parliamentary convention, MPs are not supposed to applaud other MPs or give them standing ovations. However, the fact they did is quite appropriate given the contempt that Blair held for the House of Commons.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i personally didnt mind the bloke, he couldve done a lot worse, hell i couldnt have done it better, could you? ... dum dum dum!!! lol
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tanman wrote: »
    i personally didnt mind the bloke, he couldve done a lot worse, hell i couldnt have done it better, could you? ... dum dum dum!!! lol
    A one-legged penguin could have done a better job, frankly. Is Britain a better country now than ten years ago? In almost every respect, the answer is no.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    In almost every respect, the answer is no.

    Dude, you really must live in some kind of bubble.

    In huge swathes the answer is yes.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm no great fan of Blair, in some ways things are better and in some ways worse. And a lot of both have nothing to do with Blair or Government at all.

    But he won three elections (and won them well), avoided any disasters with the economy, he's made some pretty fundamental constituional changes (and we won't know for years the impact that will have), done more for Africa than most PMs, was instrumental in stopping killing in Kosovo before it got to genocidal proportions.

    Time will tell how history judges him, but my guess is that it will be a balanced judgement. If he's not a Churchill he's not going to be a Marquess of Bute either.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dude, you really must live in some kind of bubble.

    In huge swathes the answer is yes.

    yeah man it is a better country, hell we aint dead,
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dude, you really must live in some kind of bubble.

    In huge swathes the answer is yes.

    :yes:

    without doubt the country is much better off than 10 years ago.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    (1) But he won three elections (and won them well)...
    (2) avoided any disasters with the economy...
    (3) he's made some pretty fundamental constituional changes...
    (4) done more for Africa than most PMs,
    (5) was instrumental in stopping killing in Kosovo...
    (1) Again, that's largely irrelevant. He's not the first Prime Minister to have won three elections in a row, although he is the first to receive a stage-managed, nauseating standing ovation on his last day in office.
    (2) Gordon Brown's decision to give independence to the Bank of England to set its own interest rates is the biggest factor of all here. All credit to him for that. Just about everything else with the economy is pretty much outside the Government's control.
    (3) Yep. And all of this without bothering to consult anyone first. Typical of the man.
    (4) Really? Why is the genocidal maniac Robert Mugabe still in charge of Zimbabwe? If Blair gave two hoots about Africa, he would have deposed him a long time ago. But of course, there's no oil in Zimbabwe, is there?
    (5) The only one in the list which I give huge credit to Blair. One of few times when he showed true leadership and courage, whilst most of the world just sat on its hands.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    (1) Again, that's largely irrelevant. He's not the first Prime Minister to have won three elections in a row, although he is the first to receive a stage-managed, nauseating standing ovation on his last day in office.

    *yawn* He's the first Labout leader to have ever done that, he's the first to maintain economic stability and show that Labour can be "trusted" with the economy. He chose to go and wasn't outsed etc. We've had this discussion.
    (2) Gordon Brown's decision

    Remind me, who was PM? Who sets the policy? Who has ultimate say?
    (3) Yep. And all of this without bothering to consult anyone first. Typical of the man.

    Failed to consult? Perhaps you weren't old enough to read the 97 manifesto. He actually didn't go as far as he promised.
    (4) Really? Why is the genocidal maniac Robert Mugabe still in charge of Zimbabwe? If Blair gave two hoots about Africa, he would have deposed him a long time ago. But of course, there's no oil in Zimbabwe, is there?

    Interesting response. So he should invade, but in a situation when he did - a deposed a despot - it was wrong?

    :confused:
    (5) The only one in the list which I give huge credit to Blair. One of few times when he showed true leadership and courage, whilst most of the world just sat on its hands.

    Forgetting Ireland, minimum wage, more university places, more graduates, no 36 hour waits in A&E, I could go on...
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Forgetting Ireland, minimum wage, more university places, more graduates, no 36 hour waits in A&E, I could go on...

    Of course, no one (except SG) is suggesting there hasnt been improvements, but at what cost? The PFI is running at about £100bn worth of debt, our civil liberties continue to be erroded, social mobility has ground to a halt...
Sign In or Register to comment.