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That's the key point; accidental consequences can't be treated the same as intended consequences.
A 15 year old lad who has just murdered someone is not a nipper. Any other choice words you'd like to use comrade? How about "those innocent children who were brutally ignored by a deadbeat artist were simply defending themselves when he had the audacity to ask them to refrain from smashing the windows to his mortgaged to the hilt house."
Fuck me, you could write propaganda posters for the soviets.
As for what good it would do making them serve longer, it would set an example to the rest of the "nippers" out there who might be tempted to assault people in the street for no reason.
They didn't 'murder' anyone.
Can you not se the irony there. Nobody was 'murdered'. :rolleyes:
No, they just assaulted him, and he died.
So what, if they didn't mean to kill him? They attacked him, he died.
So if I was cleaning my rifle whilst it was loaded, and I accidently shot someone in the head, that's not murder?
I'd say it. It's irresponsible. Like assaulting someone then expecting to be let off, because he died but you didn't mean it.
You don't think intent should make a difference.
No. The difference between manslaughter and murder is not a difficult concept to understand.
There is hardly ever a 'good' reason for hitting someone, but some of you are being harsh- have you never punched someone? I have, plenty, and I didn't mean for them to die, and thank-fuck-fully they didn't. The result of death could not have reasonably been predicted from theplanned action of a punch, so the youths should be punished on what they did and the reasonable outcome of that- not some freak death.
If you, whowhere, restrained some 'criminal' with a pig hold or baton, and they die of a million to one condition, should you then be tried for murder?
Accident or not, the simple fact is - if they didn't brutally assault this man, he would be alive. Punishment in accordance to the crime. He's dead, they did it.
When they found out he died they turned themselves in. This probably shows that they're already punishing themselves inside for the death. The court should take care of just the rest.
That doesn't make sense though.
By that logic, someone who walks up to someone and shoots at them 5 times but miracilously misses, shouldn't do as much time to someone who shoots someone and seriously injures them because the victim didn't get hurt. Attempted murder is still attempted murder no matter what. This is manslaughter, no one got murdered.
So fact that it was accidental means nothing? If I were to say boo to some old geezer and he died from a heart attack I wouldn't have commited murder, same with these lads. The only difference here is that assualting somebody is a crime where as making someone jump isn't.
It is in accordance to the crime. Manslaughter (quite rightly) doesn't carry as heft punishment as murder.
Er, well, no it's not. It may be a negligent discharge, it may even be manslaughter, but its not murder. It would only be murder if you did it deliberately.
Now I think the sentence is low, but from everything I heard its manslaughter as they had no intent to kill or cause serious injury...
I agree.
I was assaulted two weeks ago. I dont know think the cunts who decided they wanted to beat me up "wanted me to die" but they still meant to cause physical pain to me. Hence they punched me in the face for no reason at all....
I hope the fuckers gets locked up... but through of lack of CCTV evidence (apart from the backs of their bloody hoodys) they Police dont seem to be able to do a bloody thing
Ok, maybe it's manslaughter... but 2 years...
And if you punch someone hard enough for him to hit the ground like a sack of shit, I think you intend serious injury.
Attempted Murder. You still do time. You tried to kill someone... these kids did that pretty much, they suceeded too.
If you assault someone, anyone, you should be aware they may die. If you don't want to take that risk, don't go about assaulting people. For all you know, they may have a weak heart, or suchlike condition.
This was a sustained course of harassment, they followed him, they abused him outside his own house, until one day they decided to punch him whilst filming it.
They may not have "intended" for him to die, but the fact is if they had just left him alone, he would still be alive today.
Accidental death is leaving your handbrake off and the car rolling onto someone, accidental death is losing your balance, and pushing someone over, accidental death is just that, an accident.
These youths intended to cause harm, upset and injury to the bloke, now he's dead.
They are murderers.
And there it is. The difference between manslaughter and murder.
And you work for the police?
Intent is the most important factor here and you're ignoring it.
:banghead: No they didn't. It's not rocket science.
They may have intended to harm him but they didn't intend to cause death or serious injury which is what is needed for murder.
Are you saying that if you had a drunken fight on a street, went to hit someone and they fell and cracked their head on the pavement and died that you'd rather be convicted of murder and receive a life sentence than be convicted of manslaughter which is what it would be and receive a lesser sentence?
They intended to cause serious injury, their sentences should reflect that. 3 years, for manslaughter is still a pitiful sentence.
It's more likely they intended to cause some harm, not serious harm.
That makes me feel uneasy that coppers out there would consider this murder.
You know this how?
You are a police officer, you should know the law. Nobody was murdered. To commit murder you have to intentionally cause GRIEVOUS bodily harm, or you have to intend to kill them.
The fact that you don't know and understand the law, in my experience, is not at all surprising. Some of the mistakes I've seen coppers made my job as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.
One punch is not enough to convict on murder- as you well know, it is affray at the very most. If he hadn't bashed his head on the kerbstone they'd have got 100 hours CS, and nobody would have been able to argue about that.
Some of the opinions on here seriously scare me.
The police's job is to investigate what happened and if someone was killed unlawfully find out who they believe did and present the evidence to the CPS...
It's the job of a gaver to undertstand the law. The difference between murder and manslaughter is pretty basic too.
Well, unless they intended to hug him by punching him in the face, I think it's obvious.
I think when assaulting anyone, you should be aware you may kill them. One punch is all it takes - a well placed, or luckily placed blow, to a critical organ.
A good hit in the throat will kill ANYONE. Fact.
don't get yourself in similar situations an you've nothing to worry about.
It is. A solid hit to the temple (side of the head just past the ear) you could possibly kill someone instantly.
No, it's not obvious they meant to casuse serious harm. Fucking hell people, I hope you never have to do jury service
That some coppers don't understand the law properly is something for everybody to worry about.