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Manhunt 2 banned
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
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I admit, this sucks but it makes me happy because I couldn't get it anyway because its not coming on 360 (why I don't know)
Although eventually it'll come out on the 360 i think, i'll pirate it then
I'll freely admit that I've been a bit uneasy about the amount of violence and gore in some games, so if we've reached a point where the BBFC have to step in and say that enough is enough, then I'm all for it.
The game violence hysteria isn't going away, but if the BBFC are seen to be active and willing to draw the line in the sand, then the crappy parents and headline nabbing politicos are forced back a bit.
Think about the amount of violence that you have in games at this point. Think of how bad the stuff in Manhunt 2 had to be for it to recive an outright ban...
I got bored after stabbing and suffocating a few people. But at the same time my curiosity will get the better of me, what are they trying to keep me from.
As with anything, an outright ban will cause curiosity about it. If it was a document, or an image.. we would have already seen it, but games are alot easier to censor from the general public.
Don't think so, unless they change the victims from human to zombie like carmageddon in '97
Carmageddon seems positively tame in comparison to manhunt 2 though. Rockstar will be loving the attention their game gets, but i bet they'll be mighty pissed about not being able to sell in the UK.
They have 2 weeks to appeal the decision, or maybe they'll release some kind of tamed-down version for us.
Nah, If I wanted that, I'd play dead rising.
Doesn't really matter if they release it or not or it gets cut. Unless it comes out on 360.
THAt^^^
Manhunt was boring and fairly unimaginative. Honestly, for gruesome gamping Kingpin was better (and that wasn't exactally great either). Manhunt... was overhyped and over rated by many. It was honestly toss.
Good I say, I daresay it isn't a good game anyway. GTA4, now that, I can't wait for.
In fairness, I am saddened Carmageddon 4 isn't going to be made thanks to SCi's death. I was wanting that damn badly. Just ot see press reaction, but also because Carmageddon was one of my favourite game series. EVER. Someone needs to bring it back.
If something does need banning, ffs, it's lesuire suit larry.
Personlly if its got an adult rating why ban it?
I liked the first manhunt and was looking forward to this one.It has an adult rating already and it implicitly says its definately not for kids so why do they decide to ban it for us?People choosing what we should and shouldnt watch or play really gets on my fucking nerves.:mad: :mad:
Don't fucking buy it then. :rolleyes: I reckon this thread should be in P&D really. There is absolutely no justification for banning it, and I don't need to see the content to know that. If you really want a comparison, should be compare the amount of deaths and violence linked to computer games to the amount of deaths and violence linked to alcohol, and ask which one should be top of the list for banning if we are going to ban anything? Nothing should ever be banned that doesn't result in the direct harm of an individual other than the one using it. There may also be an argument for banning things that even harm the person using it in certain cases. But no film, book, record or video game has ever harmed anyone directly or otherwise. It's just a hangover from the religious bullshit of "obscenity," "indecency" and "blasphemy" all of which I thought we were past as a society, at least as far as lawmaking was concerned.
I hope Manhunt 2 does promote violence and all the BBFC officials all go and fuck themselves with a rusty screwdriver. And this is coming from someone who doesn't really want to play the game.
In the words of Bill Hicks, "Nobody answered these four questions. Yeah? And? So? What?"
America gave it a AO rating... which gives rockstar a massive problem, because sony, nintendo and even microsoft wont allow AO games to be made for their consoles! Plus most retailers wont stock the AO games, soo rockstar have suspended the game while they "review their options". They're going to have to tame it down if they want to be able to sell it to the masses!
Edit: BBC Article - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6225286.stm
Wikipedia article on Manhunt 2 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhunt_2
There seems to be a few different issues at play here.
Firstly, can a game (or film, or Tv show) ever influence a person to behave in a certain way, or encourage behaviour that would reinforce negative, violent or criminal behaviour
Secondly, even if the answer to question one is no, should there be moral guidelines on what is acceptable in an industry. Is it simply a hang over to some past age of 'indecency' or is there something more fundamental. In short - is everything always acceptable?
So in my view -
There is some evidence that hard-core pornography that's violent and abusive can play some part in reinforcing negative stereotypes and abusive behaviour for some - especially those who for whatever reason are already predisposed to that direction.
The question would be whether an act as extreme as murder could be encouraged - by it's very nature more obviously fantasy in a game or film than abusive sexual behaviour.
Personally I don't buy it - I tend to see the effect of violence in a film in the same Anthony Burgess did, that some films may provide a style to certain acts of violence (as in the case of the tramp kicked to death by the Clockwork Orange fan) but they didn't cause the violence itself. Ultimately then, the quality of the art can justify the content or risk.
Which brings us to the second point. Is it acceptable to allow any judgement on the tone and nature of a game. This is something the BBFC does all the time, ratings are always mitigated by percieved judgements on content.
It's acceptable, for example, to have an 18 rated film with sex (as in the case of Intimacy) rather than an R18 rating because of the nature of the film. In allowing this judgement the system inevitably works better - in the past simply enforcing rules without any thought led to the bannings of a massive number of films (especially during the 'video nasty' debates and in the aftermath of the James Bulger murder - which for the record no police or social service witnesses believed films played a part in). So it's better in my mind that the BBFC examiners have the right to play games and consider artistic merit against acceptable rules.
And before we imply that the BBFC are run by some old stodgy men without any idea what is going on in the world - they aren't. The examiners tend to be around 35ish, be from all cultural backgrounds, as much as is possible. They've seen more games than you, and have watched more porn than you ever will. They recieve regular counselling to deal with issues of desensitisation and in answer it to question 'if it's so bad why aren't they messed up?' - they believe in all the interviews that they have been, to some degree, messed up by the work they do. In the words of one examiner - 'there are images in my head now that I would never have wanted and never have seen without this work' so as a quick aside, just remember these are people who understand, to a degree, the medium they are dealing with.
So, in my mind, there should be judgements made based on tone and artistic merit when considering what is acceptable - but should anything be banned at all? One arguement would be to have the American system where content for distribution through specialist shops can be released 'unrated' - as with many DVD special editions - and rating by the MPAA is only required for a release in the cinema. So should the same be true here, should it all be acceptable, just with a special rating?
Well, ignoring Manhunt 2 for now, because after all I haven't played it - I do think there are lines of acceptability. Would it be acceptable to have a photo realistic game where you raped children? Would a genocide simulator where you gased jews be entertainment and should sold on shop shelves? Would it be acceptable to create a game where you stalked gay men as a homophobic killer and the game encouraged you to kill them?
If there are points where things are seen as acceptable then it means that some things will get banned. I personally am much happier to live in a country where we are open about our judgements. In the US, as mentioned above, the AO rating means the game will never be released - it's finished for economic reasons. Handing out that rating was intended to ban the game, without the blame. At least in the UK the BBFC is honest and banned it openly and allows for a discussion and appeal.
Ultimately, if we do draw the line - and yes, you could argue we shouldn't at all - then you have to accept that line might be crossed, and you also have to trust the people you employ to enforce it.
TBH, the issue here is, some certain people have a mental condition which honestly makes them not safe to live in the real world. If someone does play a game, or watch a film, then go and emulate it (E.G: Death Race 2000) they are honestly not sane.
I have seen such films (I love that film) and played all of the Carmageddon series, which had the daily mail up in arms, all of GTA, a helluva lot of FPS's, and other violent games. Even Postal 2, though I refrained from playing postal properly, because it was shit.
I am not a mass murdering, pavement driving, people burning, scissor throwing, car stealing, madman. Not yet, anyway. But when Zombies break out on the streets, I'll be there to save us all, Max Damage style.
SPLATTER BONUS!
I wouldn't have supported banning it on another console or PC, strangling someone with a mouse and the C key just isn't the same.
it's a load of crap either way, otherwise the people who censor films and games would be psychopathic bastards
should just be advisory warnings like in europe
Now Combat Mission is a purely tactical level game which has no political side and I think that change is over the top, but I can see why the publishers' want to protect themselves.
And a huge number of Japan's porn focuses around rape fantasy and yet they have some of the lowest rates of this crime in the world, as well as some of the highest reporting rates.
No there should be no line to what an adult should be able to watch or play. No-one has come up with a single piece of evidence to suggest that it should. And equally, I suspect that every one of these people fully accept an adults right to drink alcohol should they so wish, which is responsible for a huge number of violent crimes and deaths per year. Explain that one for me someone. Because in that case, even if the theory that films or games could promote violence in isolated cases had some significant evidence behind it, that would still be no greater argument for banning certain images than violent crime on a saturday night is for a complete ban on alcohol.
they wouldnt, because it wouldnt sell, and reputation would affect their other products...
Exactly, as long as consumer opinion remains the most important thing to retailers, things that are outside what is generally accepted as moral are unlikely to be stocked. I would have no problem if every shop in the country refused to stock this game, or Nintendo or Sony decided they didn't want it on their console. What I object to is the government attempting to legislate what we can and cannot view.
As usual video games seem to be being used as a scape goat. Theres violence in films and on TV but when was the last time you heard of something being banned for that. Also these games have their 18 ratings for a reason...
problem in bannign this game is there is so much like it thats on sale - the game is probably rubbish anyway, and needs the publicity to sell.....
nothing wrong with the game imo other than being another reason why the games industry is gonig downhill, hype > quality