Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨

Reflections on Blair: The African Chapter

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
From the Beeb

An interesting article on the legacy of Blairs foreign policy in Africa, from four different correspondents. I bring this to the attention of board members because, in this period completely overshadowed by events in the middle east, we sometimes are in danger of losing sight of other foreign policy elements during the Blair reign.

My opinion; broadly speaking I think that (with the notable exception of the Sierra Leone intervention) we will look back on this as a period of missed opportunities, but also the affirmation of Britain's place in the world order.

Though full of ideals, hopeful speeches and initiatives, my of the aspirations of the outgoing Prime Minister, I believe, were simply too ambitious for him to achieve without serious backing from the United States. This backing, particularly in relation to Africa and developing nations, was never there in the sense that Blair thought it might be. His influence on Washington, as we have seen, was never as strong as he hoped.

The great triumph for peace, of the New Labour government, if I had to pick one, would be Northern Ireland. In 1984 the IRA nearly succeeded in wiping out the elected government of this country. Now, there weapons are said to be beyond use. It would be interesting to hear reflections from the Irish contingent on this particular point.

Ultimately however, it will come down to Iraq. Where ever history goes next, it is certain that future generations will remember that Blair and Bush took us there.
«13

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Africa's problem is created by Africans themselves.

    I reckon that Africans are less intelligent that other races. Think about it. Black Africa has never had a technologically advanced civilisation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I couldn't help but notice firstly that Blair's farewell tour didn't include a visit to Darfur, nor a visit to the starving masses in Zimbabwe. But we don't want to look at the bad side of things now, do we? :rolleyes:

    I agree that there have been countless missed opportunities. There has also been no end of posturing and spin from this shameless politician on the subject of Africa either.
    toth8 wrote: »
    I reckon that Africans are less intelligent that other races. Think about it. Black Africa has never had a technologically advanced civilisation.
    Please could you elaborate on that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    African IQ is the lowest in the world.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    toth8 wrote: »
    I reckon that Africans are less intelligent that other races.

    Bye, bye :wave:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    toth8 wrote: »
    African IQ is the lowest in the world.
    And how do you know this? If, what you're actually saying is they're less educated, it might be because there are fewer schools and fewer education opportunities than us in the West enjoy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    toth8 wrote: »
    African IQ is the lowest in the world.

    Not quite that simple.

    1) IQ isn't just intelligence - it also covers education and has a cultural bias.

    2) The book on which your basing your claim is actually based on IQ scores from the US, not Africa.

    3) Even if the difference is there its very, very marginal. There's a greater average IQ differential between siblings than between whites and blacks...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    toth8 wrote: »
    Africa's problem is created by Africans themselves.

    If you ignore slavery, loans, raping of it's mineral weath etc...
    I reckon that Africans are less intelligent that other races.

    Well, I guess you had to push things too far eventually. Huge breach of the rules there Mr Toth, you should assume a ban will be heading your way...

    Unless you can back that up with a pretty good reason, natch
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My opinion; broadly speaking I think that (with the notable exception of the Sierra Leone intervention) we will look back on this as a period of missed opportunities, but also the affirmation of Britain's place in the world order.

    Reaffirmation of our lowly place?

    Of course it's missed opportunities. Too many lobbyists to prevent that.
    The great triumph for peace, of the New Labour government, if I had to pick one, would be Northern Ireland.

    Standing on the shoulders of giants there, me thinks.

    John major deserves more credit for that one than Blair does. IMHO.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    And how do you know this? If, what you're actually saying is they're less educated, it might be because there are fewer schools and fewer education opportunities than us in the West enjoy.

    No, I'm saying they are less intelligent.

    Numerous studies have shown a difference in IQ between whites and blacks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    toth8 wrote: »
    No, I'm saying they are less intelligent.

    Numerous studies have shown a difference in IQ between whites and blacks.
    What numerous studies are these?

    I can think of one, and it has been long discredited as the worthless load of bollocks it was.

    Fuck off with your trolling elsewhere eh?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And that study by that chap proves what exactly? Even if he turned out to be right?

    If you believe intelligence can be measured by IQ alone then you perhaps should be grouped with the Africans you have such low concept of in the intelligence table.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    And that study by that chap proves what exactly? Even if he turned out to be right?

    Because it shows that blacks could only occupy lower positions in society.
    If you believe intelligence can be measured by IQ alone then you perhaps should be grouped with the Africans you have such low concept of in the intelligence table.

    Then why do blacks score lower than whites?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    toth8 wrote: »
    Because it shows that blacks could only occupy lower positions in society.
    You what?

    Then why do blacks score lower than whites?
    Because the IQ test is designed for the Western, first world mind.

    It is not a valid or comprehensive way to assert somebody's intelligence. As you probably know but choose to ignore.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    toth8 wrote: »
    Then why do blacks score lower than whites?

    Because of societal and cultural factors (education, class biased use of language - eg using words more likely to be heard in middle-class rather than working class homes).

    Also IQ is a poor reflection of working intelligence. people with high IQs may be great at jigsaw puzzles, but it doesn't mean that they can chair a meeting or design an advertising campaign etc
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    toth8 wrote: »
    Because it shows that blacks could only occupy lower positions in society.

    Why?
    Then why do blacks score lower than whites?

    All blacks or do some score higher?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Reaffirmation of our lowly place?

    quite
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    (with the notable exception of the Sierra Leone intervention)

    I read an article a while ago suggesting that a sizable chunk of the people there actually want us to come back and run the country because their leaders are always crap. Though I dont think that tells you anything specific about black/white relations, just about how crap their leaders have been.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    You what?

    Yes, because the highest and most difficult jobs require the most intelligence. You seriously think it takes as much intelligence to be a sweet sweeper than a rocket scientist?
    Because the IQ test is designed for the Western, first world mind.

    How so?
    It is not a valid or comprehensive way to assert somebody's intelligence. As you probably know but choose to ignore.

    Can you back this up?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    toth8 wrote: »
    Yes, because the highest and most difficult jobs require the most intelligence. You seriously think it takes as much intelligence to be a sweet sweeper than a rocket scientist?
    Are you suggesting there are no black scientists, doctors, proffesors, academics? :rolleyes:
    How so?
    Puzzles, shapes, problems, questions, equations and situations the Western mind is far more exposed to in every day life than your average African.


    Can you back this up?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_test#Criticism
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From the link at Wikipedia
    Lynn's previous work, including the trade book IQ and the Wealth of Nations with Tatu Vanhanen, have received widespread and strong criticism for both bias and error.

    The guy is a fruit cake, and you're a racist bastard. Everyone with an ounce of intelligence knows that IQ tests are based on experience and culture, not true intelligence.
    I'm sure an African tribesman would be able to run rings around you when asked to hunt a lion or locate a source of water.
    I bet noone here knows much about nuclear-fission or how an engine works, despite them both being commonplace and hallmarks of the Western world, does that make us idiots?

    :wave:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Are you suggesting there are no black scientists, doctors, proffesors, academics? :rolleyes:

    No but black people have less opportunity to be them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    I read an article a while ago suggesting that a sizable chunk of the people there actually want us to come back and run the country because their leaders are always crap. Though I dont think that tells you anything specific about black/white relations, just about how crap their leaders have been.

    I suspect it depends on the country - its probably more popular in Sierra Leona (where a small amount of British soldiers brought peace where the UN and Government had failed) than it is in S.Africa where they're still suffering the after effects of apartheid
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not to do with their intelligence though is it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I suspect it depends on the country - its probably more popular in Sierra Leona (where a small amount of British soldiers brought peace where the UN and Government had failed) than it is in S.Africa where they're still suffering the after effects of apartheid

    Of course, I doubt you'd find all that many people in SA who would want the Brits ruling them again, even if inequality has got greater since the end of apartheid.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blair's very popular in Sierra Leone, in fact he's was made an honorary Chief on his last visit.

    Things are starting to slip out of control again however, as far as I am aware.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Things are starting to slip out of control again however, as far as I am aware.

    Well Charles Taylor is being tried in the Hague because they thought a trial there may kick things off again, that doesnt suggest a stable country at ease with itself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you ignore slavery, loans, raping of it's mineral weath etc...

    Salvery ended a long long time ago, they need to get over it, and the loans, well if i was to take out a loan i couldn’t then complain about paying it back could i? why should they?

    mineral weath is just a matter of option isnt it? they sell it for the price we are prepared to pay
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Territt wrote: »
    the loans, well if i was to take out a loan i couldn’t then complain about paying it back could i? why should they?

    And if the person who took out the loans was a nasty dictator? Its not exactly like you taking out a loan to pay for a new car.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Territt wrote: »
    Salvery ended a long long time ago, they need to get over it, and the loans, well if i was to take out a loan i couldn’t then complain about paying it back could i? why should they?

    mineral weath is just a matter of option isnt it? they sell it for the price we are prepared to pay

    Your all heart arent you :rolleyes:
Sign In or Register to comment.