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you seem to think that rape is some sort of magical act which can't be treated like other crimes. Rapists are criminals, they are therefore treated like criminals. You can't just go around making special rules in the legal system to deprive them of their rights simply because you view their crime to be worse than others.
while your at it why not make people arrested for shoplifting pay back their legal aid, or people caught with weed.
I think that the assertion is that "rape" didn't take place at all.
An accusation of rape is damaging enough these days. To throw out the defence procedure so that if you call someone a rapist they must be (if they cannot defend themselves in court) is ridiculous.
But like others have said, what she actually said was:
"She was 12st 6lb – not quite the swan she may turn into. She may well have been glad of the attention. It is all too unrealistic that sexual encounters between boys and girls who have never met before must be against the girls' will. They are learning to be sexually attractive, perhaps before their time."
I assume therefore she's making a case for the sex being consensual. But it is a low blow to say that the girl was more likely to consent because she was overweight. Complete conjecture that should be thrown out. From the people I've known in my life, people with less self esteem are less likely to want any kind of sexual relations with others.
Like someone said, it takes away the dignity of the victim needlessly, probably more than anything to manipulate her so when she's examined she can be played to make it look like she consented. Having this kind of thing said about you in a court of law at the age of 16 must be permanently damaging to yourself, I hope the lady lawyer does trip and break her nose on some granite steps
If a thief or killer or anything goes free because of their defence, and their attorney knew that the person was a thief/killer/anything, then the attorney is almost as much guilty of their next crimes (and possibly the ones before) as the one who committed them.
But that really only happens in the movies. Criminals don't get away with their crimes because there defense somehow falsely proved their innocence, they get off on some sort of technicality. Honestly I can't claim to have very intimate knowledge of the UK's legal system but in the states attorneys take an oath the provide the best representation possible, sometimes that means pointing out a technicality. I'm not saying that it's easy for them to do this, but they are upholding a swore duty.
Anybody in the legal profession has a legal obligation if they know the person is guilty i.e. through confession then they can't pretend they didn't hear it. Sometimes you get 'sting' operations on solicitors to catch them out and then they are struck off the register. I think anyway
I said this earlier, solicitors aren't allowed to plead not guilty for a client who has admitted that they are guilty. Only dodgy lawyers would take the risk.
So you think that overweight women have low self-esteem then?
for example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17506879&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
below is one of many published papers on the effects of weight and self esteem
I think the fact she's a possible rape victim though, and the fact that shes young, and the fact that in court the argument isn't that likely to do much more other than unsettle the victim, it just doesn't seem morally / ethically right. I think if there is an issue, that is it. As a professional there should be a responsibility - if someone may be a victim of a horrid crime then badgering them, making them cry, in order to try to discredit them (cheap tactics, essentially) is really quite off.
I'm not a lawyer or a solicitor though, just giving my perspective. It just doesn't seem very professional.
If you feel that rape convictions are too low (and at 6% its hard to argue anything else) surely what we should be looking at is not reducing the rights of the defandants or lawyers in providing the best defence, but improving how CPS and the police work (eg moving towards specialist rape teams).
There also seems to be evidence, based on the story that the lads had stolen the girls phone and she was trying to recover it.
So all of that again doesn't make the case certain, but does suggest a very different sequence of events compared to what seems to be being discussed (fat girl with low self esteem has sex with some men who showed her attention)
Of course I also don't see how any of this suggests that we should get rid of the legal basis of our entire country - all people deserve a defence regardless of income.
Yea, was kind of aprt of my point (in a way) that more than anything the argument seems manufactured to try to unsettle the victim. Have you seen the film A Few Good Men? I know it's only a film - but basically the guy has no evidence and so just barrages the guy until he confesses. But he got warned by his fellows if it didn't work he would have got arrested for dishonourable conduct, because the guy he was accusing was a colonel or a general or something.
It seems we are all unhappy at the comment made about the girl wanting attention because she was overweight, however I too know friends that have taken part in degrading activities and been humiliated by men because of low self esteem. I'm not saying that it was the case here because there are other elements that lead us all to believe this was likely to not be true.
It is a shame that comments like this are ever made but defense and prosecution will always try to explain a little about the supposed mental state and character of the victim and defendant as it adds background for people who have little experience of those in the same situation.
Personally I do hope that should I ever be wrongly accused of something that my defense would go to any lengths to ensure I walked free, which I'm sure as a matter of course they do for all their clients.
Pay better attention to what I say next time...
So you agree with me that the person's weight isn't relevant to their self-esteem, rather the satisfaction level with their weight/shape.