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And this is what you get when abortion is illegal

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I disagree here. Not that I've gone to ask any of the people who were unwanted children, but I doubt most of them would prefer to have never been born if you asked them.

    that's like asking most peopl about any hard decision in life, in the end, they think the benefit outweighed the cons

    it's in new scientist about decision making this month :thumb:
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    that's like asking most peopl about any hard decision in life, in the end, they think the benefit outweighed the cons
    Um, no they don't? Not always. Even I have made big decisions that I regret.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can't believe the girl had to go through all that.

    Pathetic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Um, no they don't? Not always. Even I have made big decisions that I regret.

    i meant 'most', not statistically proven of course, but the idea of making good decision is making sure you stick by the irreversible ones, and fi you make a mistake, you make sure you don't do it again

    i wrote original post when drunk, what i meant is that once the decision is made people may regret it, but they think it was the best decision at the time an get on with things, like they have an abortion but next time they might not after how they felt after, or they had a kid, and now love that kids to bit even if having it seemed a bad idea at the time.... both have long term tangible benefits which outweigh the original decision for most people, it's a lesson in life which hopefully one learns from to make better decisions
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hopefully this will never happen again. I feel sorry for women who have to go through all this - it's not just a case of 'I want an abortion because I can't be bothered to look after my child and didn't want it in the first place'.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't believe anyone should be forced carry on with a pregnancy when the baby is more than likely to die at a few days old.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think women should have a right to abortion, and all this nonsense about doctors refusing to refer is bollocks in my opinion. They are a service provider, so provide the damn service. No-one is asking them to have an abortion, but all the time it's still legal, they should provide the service that women require when they're seen.

    The only thing that worries me about abortions is the growing number of premature babies who are surviving. It's one thing aborting a ball of cells, but something that has the potential to survive is different. Personally, that would worry me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote: »
    Hopefully this will never happen again. I feel sorry for women who have to go through all this - it's not just a case of 'I want an abortion because I can't be bothered to look after my child and didn't want it in the first place'.

    Tbh, I don't have a problem if it was tbh. I don't see why a woman should have to justify her reasons to the world. On another note, I think it would be far better for someone to have an abortion and regret it, than have a baby and regret it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote: »
    It's not inhumane at all it's mother nature ffs!
    What?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tbh, I don't have a problem if it was tbh. I don't see why a woman should have to justify her reasons to the world.

    Agreed. It makes me roll my eyes when I hear people say, "I'm pro-choice, but I don't believe a woman should be allowed to have one if..." If it means limiting the availability to suit one's own moral terms, then you're not pro-choice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do not like the abortion debate. It's one that is incredibly polarised. Those who are in favour of it often demonise the "other side" as being scumbags, or of having a hidden agenda. Those who are explicitly against it seem to think it justified to refer to its supporters as "murderers". Neither attack is justified, and neither is helpful in a debate which is, by its very nature, highly emotional to start with.

    Allow me to make something clear firstly. I do not wholly support abortion. It is a subject, a concept, that makes me feel very uneasy. I think that a society which terminates nearly 200,000 pregnancies a year is one that needs to take a very critical look at itself. Incidentally, I am unconvinced by arguments that many women use abortion as a form of contraception. Not only are those 200,000 babies that will never experience the ups and downs of life, that's 200,000 women who will have to live with the thought of "what if" for the rest of their lives. Those who claim, therefore, that I have some hidden agenda against women, are talking absolute rubbish.

    Abortion is no good thing, and I do not support it, except in exceptional circumstances. I would have little problem with ending the life of a child conceived via rape or incest. I would be able to support it if the mother would be at high risk of death should the pregnancy went ahead, or if the baby would have no quality of life. Hence why I do agree with this Irish woman being allowed to come to the UK to have an abortion.

    However, I am not at all convinced that making abortion illegal would be the right way forward. Whether in favour or against abortion, none of us wants to see women dying at the hands of back-street, unqualified abortioners. I believe it is best to keep abortions legal, where there can be safeguards put in place, and where appropriate, counselling can take place with a qualified person.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I do not like the abortion debate. It's one that is incredibly polarised. Those who are in favour of it often demonise the "other side" as being scumbags, or of having a hidden agenda. Those who are explicitly against it seem to think it justified to refer to its supporters as "murderers". Neither attack is justified, and neither is helpful in a debate which is, by its very nature, highly emotional to start with.
    There is a difference between the two sides though. Everyone has a personal opinion on the issue, but only certain pro-life people attempt to prevent other people from exercising their freedom of choice to make their own decisions. No-one forces anyone to have an abortion, but plenty of people try and force people to have a baby they don't want.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is a difference between the two sides though. Everyone has a personal opinion on the issue, but only certain pro-life people attempt to prevent other people from exercising their freedom of choice to make their own decisions. No-one forces anyone to have an abortion, but plenty of people try and force people to have a baby they don't want.
    Correct. Sadly, debates about abortion tend to be hijacked by lunatics. Whilst I'm very uneasy with abortions, I would not seek to prevent others having them. I would, however, want to look very carefully at what kind of support these women receive before, during, and after their abortions. I believe the psychological side is sometimes not given the attention it merits.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think that a society which terminates nearly 200,000 pregnancies a year is one that needs to take a very critical look at itself

    Out of interest, how many abortions would need to be stop to the extent where society would no longer have to take a critical look at itself? When people start using numbers, to me it suggests that 200,000 abortions is too many. As would be 100,000. As would be 50,000. As would be 100. As would be 1.
    I would have little problem with ending the life of a child conceived via rape or incest

    Why? A foetus bought about by rape or incest is just as 'innocent' as one that has been bought about by consensual sex, or from a woman who would be terminating a pregnancy for reasons owing to her mental health.
    Whether in favour or against abortion, none of us wants to see women dying at the hands of back-street, unqualified abortioners

    Don't be so sure. I've had many antis say to me that the woman dying isn't really an issue for them. A certain livejournal user had a the icon with a picture of a coathanger, and the slogan, "If you're dumb enough to use one of these, you deserve to die."

    But I do agree that there needs to be better provisions made for women to ensure their care is there for her throughout the entire process, as little or as much as she wants, including afterwards if she feels she needs it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At the end of the day it's the woman choice.

    In an ideal society nobody would have to have abortions. Yes, well, and nobody would get drunk, and nobody would be nasty to each other, etc etc.

    But 'ideal' societies and worlds are just utopian dreams. We live in the real world, and we should ensure that women have that choice available to them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away wrote: »
    Out of interest, how many abortions would need to be stop to the extent where society would no longer have to take a critical look at itself?
    In other words, what you're saying is "oh, we shouldn't worry about the numbers on these things. Let's not ask any questions". What a pathetically lazy approach.
    Don't be so sure. I've had many antis say to me that the woman dying isn't really an issue for them. A certain livejournal user had a the icon with a picture of a coathanger, and the slogan, "If you're dumb enough to use one of these, you deserve to die."
    I couldn't advocate that. Whilst I'm a believer in personal responsibility, I don't think a woman should die because of one mistake.
    But I do agree that there needs to be better provisions made for women to ensure their care is there for her throughout the entire process, as little or as much as she wants, including afterwards if she feels she needs it.
    Just about the only thing we probably will agree on, sadly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In other words, what you're saying is "oh, we shouldn't worry about the numbers on these things. Let's not ask any questions". What a pathetically lazy approach.

    Please, I asked a perfectly reasonable straightforward question. If you can't bring yourself to answer it, at least have the decency to not lower yourself to insinuate that I do not care about numbers.

    For your information, I do care about bringing numbers down, but through means that are non-legislative, so spare me the melodrama, it says a lot more about you than it does about me. I've taught sex ed in schools, I help out in other forums for people needing help regarding abortion and contraception. I've worked in abortion care for over two years where I've helped women to find ways where they have continued their pregnancies. I've spoken at many pro-choice events and I'm going to help a friend set up a site that is rather like PregnancyOptions, but to cater to women based in the UK.

    Lazy? You wouldn't know the first thing about my approach :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away wrote: »
    For your information, I do care about bringing numbers down, but through means that are non-legislative. I've taught sex ed in schools, I help out in other forums for people needing help regarding abortion and contraception. I've worked in abortion care for over two years where I've helped women to find ways where they have continued their pregnancies. I've spoken at many pro-choice events and I'm going to help a friend set up a site that is rather like PregnancyOptions, but to cater to women based in the UK.
    Having learnt all this, it's clear that the words "pathetically lazy" were grossly inappropriate. I withdraw those choice of words.

    As for the original question, there is one school of thought which says one abortion is too many. This is not one I agree with, incidentally. All I am saying is that, as abortion numbers have gone up, it would help if we knew why. Is that such an unreasonable question?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tbh, I think I saw red when I saw what you posted and didn't stop to take a few minutes, so I shouldn't have been so bull-in-china-shop with my approach. I think I was a bit out of order in my last statement, for now I'm stepping away from the pooter and am off to have a protein shake. I'll be back later when I've done some proper work and I'll address what you said :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ignore this, fecking computer.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    At the end of the day it's the woman choice.

    In an ideal society nobody would have to have abortions. Yes, well, and nobody would get drunk, and nobody would be nasty to each other, etc etc.

    But 'ideal' societies and worlds are just utopian dreams. We live in the real world, and we should ensure that women have that choice available to them.
    :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away wrote:
    Tbh, I think I saw red when I saw what you posted and didn't stop to take a few minutes, so I shouldn't have been so bull-in-china-shop with my approach. I think I was a bit out of order in my last statement, for now I'm stepping away from the pooter and am off to have a protein shake. I'll be back later when I've done some proper work and I'll address what you said :)
    I've developed quite a thick skin whilst using this website. I'm rather used to seeing much worse written about me, so it was not a problem. Stepping away from the computer every now and then is an approach that more people should adopt. I will do so too - gotta bring the clothes in!
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