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GBH sentencing and affray....

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
hey guys,

just want to know your views on what me and my 2 friends could possibly be looking at sentence wise for accounts of GBH na d AFFRAY.

the story is......we went to pub had 3 or 4 pints whilst walking home one friend picked up a small plastic picnic table from somebodys garden, further on the lad with the table somehow managed to knock off a rock off someones garden wall,the guy whos garden it was came running out and went crazy at us with a weapon (lead pipe), we denied tried to calm the person down but he wasnt having any of it,one of the lads tried to compramise with the guy but he attempted to take a swing at him with his lead pipe so my friend picked up a leg off the plastic table and swung with one arm and went to protect himself with the other,he managed to hit the guy in the head with the table leg and the guy collapsed on the floor,myself threw a table leg at the guy when he was on the floor,we then ran away,the police caught us a week later and told us we had knocked him out and he had 5 stiches in his head,we thought the guy was 45 years of age but he was actually 65,this shocked us a lot.

we are all 18 year old lads at uni and have no previous what so ever.

if you could give us your views on the matter and tell us what scentece we can expect that would be an awsome help,we have go0t a very good solicitor at hand too.

thanks tandish.....

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Unlucky, but it sounds like you're in for a rough time.

    Even telling the story how you just have to us, I'm sure a jury wouldn't be too approving of your behavior.

    The law doesn't make a distinction on "who hit first" when deciding whether it was self defense or not; you can make the first strike if you feel you're in danger, so that might offer some comfort. However, I'm not sure just how much damage you throwing a table leg at him while he was down would cause... but it would sound like "unreasonable force"... considering the guy was KO'ed.

    Best advice: talk to your solicitor :p

    As for sentencing... I doubt anything serious, but I doubt you're gonna like it... we'll just have to see how good that solicitor is :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Since it's a first offence you might be ok. But it's pretty bad. Since it was on his property he has the right to make the first strike really. I would definately get a good solicitor, you could potentially be looking at jail time. Having said that, I'm not an expert I'm just a student myself.

    Maybe if you plead guilty and show remorse the judge will see it's your first conviction and will give you community service.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    news has come today that the guy wasnt knocked out,supposedly he blacked out after,it looks like he is trying to claim money from this.but i can still see us recieveing some sort of scentence.do you really think we could do time in jail for this?
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    Levi wrote: »

    Best advice: talk to your solicitor :p

    :yes: You might want to read this article on weapons and the law also, but at the end of the day your solicitor will know best.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    thanks for the help,think i need to speak to my solicitor,i just dont wanna have to do any time for this,mainly because i dont want to get kicked out of uni!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Look at it objectively, and correct me if i'm wrong but this is how a judge will see it.

    You were all drunk.
    You stole someone's table
    You trespassed in a man's garden and caused damage.
    He tried to get rid of you.
    Instead of just running away you "defended" yourself by hitting him with a table leg.
    Then you hit him again whilst he was on the floor.

    With all of the first lines you may be looking at community service. But the fact you hit him whilst he was down is not going to look good at all.

    Now let's look at the offences you've comitted.
    Drunk and disorderly-Minimum £80 fine, in court the average sentence is £150-£300
    Theft-You could get 6 months, although more likely community service
    Criminal Damage-Max 3 months and Level 4 fine
    Affray-Max 6 months imprisonment
    GBH-Average prison sentence in 2003 was 18 months, if you get charged with GBH with intent the avg prison sentence goes upto 50 months.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the table was a small picnic table,we knocked one or two bricks off the wall,we tried to calm the man down and compromise with him,we didnt think it was going to get that bad
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    we didnt tresspass either all we did was walk past his house and managed to knock off the bricks off his garden wall on the other side,but i know what you mean,it doesnt look good in court....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    personally id have me and all my mates making a statement saying that you felt firmly threatened, and thought you were going to be hit with a lead pipe

    as for stealing the picnic table.. wouldnt whoevers table it was have to make a complaint about it? say you found it lying in the street

    you're pretty fucked for hitting him when he was down.. but did the initial blow knock him out? if so deny hitting him when he was down.. pretty low but better than fucking yourself over

    but yea, it all starts off so innocent and when it lands up in court its made out to be far far worse

    i think the worst part is that he was 65 years old
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Give him advice on how to lie his way out of it, a glowing example of how one of the very things wrong with this country is a mass failure for people to take responsibility for their own actions.

    Tandish, the sentences I posted for the theft and criminal damage are related to what you actually did. The table being a "small picnic table" and the wall being "one or two bricks" is irrelevant i'm afraid, and using them as a defence in court won't wash with the prosecution or the judge. The fact that you DID them is all that matters.
    Your best chance for a lighter sentence, with information about it being your first offence and you being at uni is to plead guilt at the earliest opportunity. To do so, shows you accept responsibility for your actions, you show remorse for your actions and a desire to not repeat them. Offering compensation of some sort might also work in your favour, although a solicitor would be able to advise better on that.

    To plead innocence despite what appears to be overwhelming evidence against you will result in the judge handing down whatever sentence he/she feels like and will lead them to paint a not very glowing picture of you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere - what if you agreed with assault but they were charging you with GBH which is a more serious crime? Where is the line between battery / assault / abh / gbh as well?

    I suppose using a weapon, rending them unconcious, and hitting them while they're down is pretty high up though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Whowhere - what if you agreed with assault but they were charging you with GBH which is a more serious crime? Where is the line between battery / assault / abh / gbh as well?

    I suppose using a weapon, rending them unconcious, and hitting them while they're down is pretty high up though.

    For a wound to suffered the dermis and epidermis of the skin has to be broken and serious harm or really serious harm caused for it to be GBH, knocking him unconscious would not amount to this i don't think.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Whowhere - what if you agreed with assault but they were charging you with GBH which is a more serious crime? Where is the line between battery / assault / abh / gbh as well?

    I suppose using a weapon, rending them unconcious, and hitting them while they're down is pretty high up though.



    Common assault-is simply an unlawful assault, this can be as minimal as spitting.

    ABH-Actual bodily harm. If your assault causes visible marks/contusions e.t.c. but doesn't break the skin.

    GBH-Grievous bodily harm, anthing more serious than this where a limb might be broken, lots of cuts, head injuries. Being glassed would normally be a GBH, as would repeatedly hitting someone whilst they're on the floor.....

    Sec.18 wounding-The most serious, stabbing e.t.c. comes under this.

    With all of these you can also add on "with intent". Hitting someone and cutting them might be a GBH/ABH. Hitting someone, them running away and you chasing after them would be "with intent". The max sentence for GBH for instance goes up to life imprisonment if "with intent" can be proven.

    Shyboy, If Tandish gets to CPS/court and doesn't agree with the charge of GBH he should instruct his solicitor to plead guilty to the lesser offence of ABH (plea bargaining). If it's a border line case then the CPS might charge with that instead. If it's quite clearly a GBH then they will simply say "fuck you, plead not guilty we'll have you anyway" or something similar.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    me and the 2 other lads have all pleaded guilty,it was the first thing we did,we have heard information that the victim in this might of been lying to the police sayignt hat his injuries were worse than what they were,he was supposedly not knocked out form the blow to the head,he just complained about blackouts,what do you thing the court will make of this,and supposedly he had no cuts in his head so no stitches were needed,but there is still marks.we did feel under threat from th guy as he came at us with a lead pipe,surely we wont get time or even community service for this now ill we????
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tandish, you admit that you are guilty, the best thing to do is face the consequences and wait it out. We don't know how it will pan out, you're just going to have to wait and see.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    z- wrote: »
    personally id have me and all my mates making a statement saying that you felt firmly threatened, and thought you were going to be hit with a lead pipe

    as for stealing the picnic table.. wouldnt whoevers table it was have to make a complaint about it? say you found it lying in the street

    you're pretty fucked for hitting him when he was down.. but did the initial blow knock him out? if so deny hitting him when he was down.. pretty low but better than fucking yourself over

    but yea, it all starts off so innocent and when it lands up in court its made out to be far far worse

    i think the worst part is that he was 65 years old

    Won't lying get him into more trouble?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the whole idea is that you only lie if you're going to get away with it...

    its far from ideal but a lot of the time the other party will exaggerate, as you can see from what tandish has just said.. imo you'd be stupid to let yourself get done for something you could get your way out of, but each to their own :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :(

    basically similar situation, im a student, 17 years of age, 18 in march.

    i was in a night club with a group of lads, whilst pushing and shoving in the que's inside the bar, another group came onto us, we exchanged a few words! then one of them got in my face, so he went to headbutt me, i dodged it, then punched him in the face, on his way down i kicked him in the jaw! unfortuantly the persons jaw broke, i then got dragged out the club, while my friends and his friends were still fighting!

    cctv is suggesting nothing, as it it was crap

    i've been charged for assault, but the police officer came into the cell and says 'it could be more serious, his jaw broke', what the hell does this mean! i am on bail at the minute, waiting to see what is going to happen, the policeman that charged me were really kind, told me there going to try there hardest to persuade the person to drop the charges! if not what will happen?...also first offense

    thanks
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It means you could get done for GBH. The fact you kicked him in the face won't look good for you. As for being told they're going to try and get the charges dropped, I really can't see that happening tbh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    GBH ...serious shit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hey

    I've moved Mag's post into a new thread so that she receives the best support and advice as possible.

    I'll be closing this thread now, but you can post in the other one.

    Thanks.

    Mod.
This discussion has been closed.