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Iran

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
What should be done to get back our kidnapped sailors?

I know some people don't have a problem with Iran getting nuclear weapons.

It stuns me how anybody could possibly tolerate the prospect of the Iranian regime possessing nuclear weapons - especially since the Iranians have yet again committed a serious act of aggression against the UK.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Three Letters.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Erm, realistically, I reckon we should just apply diplomatic pressure and then if in a reasonable timeframe that doesn't get results, send in special forces to recover them. They have no legal reason to be held prisoner, they're not prisoners of war because we're not at war, I think they're being held on suspicion of spying aren't they?

    Was gonna make a thread on this.

    Gut instinct though, we should ICBM them a bit, just for a bit of willy waving. They're just taking the pee. We have good evidence that they were inside Iraqi waters, the Iranians said they siezed them in Iraqi waters then changed their story when they realised the implications.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't know, I really don't. All I'm sure of is that there doesn't need to be another war in the Middle East. Iran has almost become a parody of itself lately.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's getting tense. I'm pretty worried about it in all honesty. The media doesnt help, but then thats Britain for ya.

    We can only and rightly so seek a diplomatic solution at this moment in time. War is not an option, we definaltey don't have the force and we probably wouldn't have the support if anything bad were to happen. But then I guess public and international opinion hasn't stopped conflicts kicking off before.

    The Iranians are tredding a very, very thin line. They risk war with Israel the UK and the US. Imagine the uproar if Iranian soldiers were captured and paraded on national television!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i suppose those undersea portions of mud belonged to allah.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The whole incident has just weakened any influence the Iranians may have had in the middle east. I think this is actually a blessing in disguise, because it gives us more support from the rest of the region in any diplomatic negotations in the future, which I think is key.

    Incidentally, looking at a similar situation, what the fuck are the rest of Africa doing inviting Mugabe round for tea and biscuits? Arrest the fucker for God's sake. Another situation where the most important thing is the get the rest of the region on our side, and isolate the offending state.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd say the marines/sailors actions were the right ones and diplomatic and economic pressure, slowly cranked up is the most rational way to get them released. We should give clear and stern deadlines in hours not days.

    Should this continue over any serious length of time or if there's a sudden escalation (i.e. a show trial or any sign of harm) then "other options" should be considered.

    Iran's been quite foolish over the whole situation, wars have started over less, luckily for them though they picked the right military to avoid a war with...............for now.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wonder what would have happened by now if it had been american boys who had been taken...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We're fools to refer to Iran as a solid coherant nation, the marines werent even taken by the Army, the Revolutionary Guard are not part of the State and are not controled by it.

    That and this has taken place during the Iranian version of the time between Christmas and New Year, no wonder no one really knows what is happening.

    Special forces? ICBM? What rubbish, special forces to where exactly? To search all of Teran?

    The only thing we can do is ask for them back, and get as many countries as possible asking for them back.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What should be done to get back our kidnapped sailors?

    I know some people don't have a problem with Iran getting nuclear weapons.

    It stuns me how anybody could possibly tolerate the prospect of the Iranian regime possessing nuclear weapons - especially since the Iranians have yet again committed a serious act of aggression against the UK.


    Hey Laaaazy Bones, where's the link to a news story so the rest of us know what you're talking about?

    I've only gathered bits and piece off the news, so a link to a more detailed account of what's happening would be useful .. :)

    Dunno much about the story but wondering why the British Navy can't defend itself anyway ??
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It was a small boat on routine patrol captured by about 6 battleships. And apparently because it was routine, there were no helicopters accompanying them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It was a small boat on routine patrol captured by about 6 battleships. And apparently because it was routine, there were no helicopters accompanying them.

    LOL .. nice summery but I like pictures to go with the story .. :)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    Special forces? ICBM? What rubbish, special forces to where exactly? To search all of Teran?

    Ditto, hasn't the group also been split up and sent to two different locations to prevent such a thing taking place?

    As brilliantly trained and capable as the SAS and other special forces for the UK are, i think them gathering credible evidence to pin point two secret locations, information regarding the guarding etc... of the locations and captives and being able to storm them both, successfully within seconds of each other is stretching their capabilities to but it mildly.

    Everybodies opinions on Tony Blair, Iraq etc... aside he is handling this in the only way possible, and i think he is the perfect person to continue to handle this.

    I think we should allow all the pressure and deadlines to be put forward via the EU, UN and where possible our influences in the Gulf, almost distance ourself from the situation.

    I can only see two ways in which you can keep cranking up the pressure on somebody thats either progressively make your threats more serious (Which would eventually end in us declaring war [ok, extreme, distant and hopefully would not happen!] or increase the number of people expressing their concern with the situation, until they realise that pretty much everybody disagrees with their version of events and actions)


    In a way our own moral behaviour works against us, in Iran few people would express concern if they were to behead them all now, over here, the media, and most of the public would be calling for our government to be beheaded if we had even captured a number of Iranian soldiers in our waters, we'd have to give them massages every 8 hours, fag breaks every 60 minutes etc...

    It wouldn't surprise me if our govenment was more worried about upsetting the British public and media than that of the Iranians!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd be extremely surprised if the outcome isn't anything other than all sailors being freed within the next couple of weeks. Even Iran is not that stupid.

    All this boils down to political games, shows of strenght and bravado playing to the gallery (the gallery being the Iranian public and the wider Arab world). Iran might have also been trying to send a warning to the UNSC on the day they were deciding on whether to impose new sanctions on the country- though if that is the case they should know that such stupid actions will only attract heavier sanctions and criticism.

    I think the only possible route is the diplomatic one. Once Iran feels it has achieved a moral victory it will let the sailors go. Unless there is an actual danger of the sailors being charged with spying and banged up it'd be dangerous and potentially catastrophic if the UK were to use force in any way to secure the sailors' release. It's best to bite our lips until the sailors are free.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mr Orange wrote: »
    if we had even captured a number of Iranian soldiers in our waters, we'd have to give them massages every 8 hours, fag breaks every 60 minutes etc...

    We have captured some Iranian 'diplomats' inside Iraq and we are holding them like any other prisoner, this government isnt quite as wishy washy as you might think.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mostly conditioned posts in the saints`n`sinners/us`n`them mode.
    It was a small boat on routine patrol

    To add: the "routine patrol" included boarding and searching cargo vessels.

    To some that kind of action is, of itself, an act of aggression.

    Does anyone know what action those "15 servicemen" take if a search and boarding were to be refused ?

    I may be wrong but my guess would be an armed response with reinforcements.

    It seems to me that all "those undersea portions of mud" and acres of sand are presently occupied by a lot of aggressive individuals (whatever coloured costumes they may be wearing).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    We have captured some Iranian 'diplomats' inside Iraq and we are holding them like any other prisoner, this government isnt quite as wishy washy as you might think.

    It's the Americans who are holding those 5 Iranians captured in Iraq.

    I do agree that i don't believe the government will be influenced by any Iranian games, I agree with previous statements that Iran will back down once they feel they have impressed their friends, but I expect any addition pressure we lay on them will be done via 3rd parties, and we'll continue to stress how serious this is rather than aim any threats ( economically, political or military) ourselves, which would be the correct approach imo
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mr Orange wrote: »
    I do agree that i don't believe the government will be influenced by any Iranian games,

    Isn`t "games" part of the rules when you are discussing all military action ?

    Is it games or pure coincidence that the female individual just happened to have given an interview before the "routine" patrol ?

    Is it games or pure coincidence that she is a mother with a young daughter described emotionally in much detail.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote: »
    Isn`t "games" part of the rules when you are discussing all military action ?

    Is it games or pure coincidence that the female individual just happened to have given an interview before the "routine" patrol ?

    Is it games or pure coincidence that she is a mother with a young daughter described emotionally in much detail.

    Sorry you've lost me... I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to make.

    If your implying i believe this is all a big game, then i don't, obviously real people are involved, people with families and as such any action that any nation takes is going to have real consequences.

    Perhaps my wording could do with an edit, i don't venture in to P&D very often, so not used to assessing all the ways in which my wording could be viewed...

    Anyway, off home i go :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How would Britain act if a load of Iranian army men started floating about the Irish Sea? Probably the same.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote: »
    How would Britain act if a load of Iranian army men started floating about the Irish Sea? Probably the same.

    Well if they were in Irish waters, and happened to be undergoing military operations there, and we were a neutral party, then I suspect we'd leave them to it (can't think of a hypothetical situation in which that would occur though). But I get your point. Us, and especially the Americans, can't really go on lecturing the rest of the world on illegally holding foreign nationals.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If Spain had captured and imprisoned British soldiers every time they entered Spanish waters (or land!) while in exercises around Gibraltar we would have had to build a special jail for them :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    If Spain had captured and imprisoned British soldiers every time they entered Spanish waters (or land!) while in exercises around Gibraltar we would have had to build a special jail for them :p

    Maybe Spain can be runner-up to Liechtenstein for kind understanding.. Swiss invasion.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    If Spain had captured and imprisoned British soldiers every time they entered Spanish waters (or land!) while in exercises around Gibraltar we would have had to build a special jail for them :p

    then have it promptly annexed
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Crossing borders is an occupational hazard...

    But this wasn't a crossed border, at best it's disputed territory...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    If Spain had captured and imprisoned British soldiers every time they entered Spanish waters (or land!) while in exercises around Gibraltar we would have had to build a special jail for them :p

    Still it's nice that you recognise that Gibraltar isn't Spanish territory there Mr A ;)
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    SkiveSkive Posts: 15,284 Skive's The Limit
    The Iranians are obviously a bunch of cunts. They're breaking the genva convention and bassically a bunch of cunts.I hope it comes to a peaceful end because I'm not one to favour the forceful solution, but if they caryy on takign the piss. Lets fuck em up.
    The yanks are the ones that worry me though,. If they get involved ({and lest face it they want to) then all heel will brek loose.
    Weekender Offender 
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Skive wrote: »
    The Iranians are obviously a bunch of cunts. They're breaking the genva convention and bassically a bunch of cunts.I hope it comes to a peaceful end because I'm not one to favour the forceful solution, but if they caryy on takign the piss. Lets fuck em up.
    The yanks are the ones that worry me though,. If they get involved ({and lest face it they want to) then all heel will brek loose.

    Words to that.

    Iran though does think that water is its territory - but no-one else does. Bit like China and Taiwan.

    TBH, there was no call for it. But there was no call for invading Iraq - and if we weren't there, etc.

    I just think they'll release them like the last lost. I don't think Iran is stupid enough to try anything smart-ass. The USA, however - I wouldn't put it past them. Then the Mid East IS fucked.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A few tactical missile strikes would show them who's boss though. I mean seriously, it's an Iranian ego thing, to laugh at the UK and say 'heehee we've got your men' and we always go the diplomatic route and try to placate them, shake hands, make tea, be nice to everyone, one day Tony Blair should just slap the Iranian PM / dictator / whatever they have in power with a big wet fish.

    Although, please don't mistake my comments for actual constructive advice. It's a complex situation in the middle east with no simple answer - "For every complicated problem there is a simple solution, and it's usually wrong" - but these are real people who've been abducted for a game.

    And as for my remarks about special forces - I was serious. Assuming we had the capability to perform such a feat (which, from people's thoughts in this thread, I guess we don't) - I would rather we sent in some of the best trained soldiers in the world to free our soldiers than face years in jail for something they didn't do. It's all very well putting political pressure on, but every day in Iran as a hostage is a day of their lives lost basically.

    If our massive defence budget isn't to provide a real backing when we 'strongly demand' for something to be done by another government, then why bother at all? Iran is just seeming like a petulant child at the minute, and the UK government the nanny bound by new child protection laws unable to do anything except repeatedly say please stop while they get ketchup thrown over them.

    Difference being, Iran knows what it's doing is wrong, and isn't a vulnerable child, so what's the justification for not giving them a good hiding?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem is it is most probable many if not all of the captured soldiers would be killed if any such attempt was made.

    And certainly launching a few missiles while the soldiers are still in their custody is not going to make things any better for them. On the contrary.
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