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Bullied kids punished

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    The reason schools are such twats about bullying, is if there is bullying, they have to write it down, and it gets recorded, and thus makes them look like a worse school. So if the teacher thinks it's a one off, it's not worth the hassle of the paperwork, and so they don't follow it up, normally telling students to 'ignore it'.
    Bullshit. Teachers have to report it and fill in all of the paperwork no matter what. The issue of the school looking shit never comes into question. I've worked in a lot of schools and have a lot of teacher friends who've worked in a number of schools and they'll fully support this. If they didn't report it, they wouldn't be doing their job properly.

    I've seen the bullying situation from both sides. I was bullied, mainly psychologically, and I followed the advice of teachers. I made them aware of it (well, actually my friends did), I ignored the bullies and didn't give them the satisfaction of a reaction. Eventually (after a couple of years) they got bored. It was only after overhearing a conversation in the toilets at a party that I realised that the main bully bitch had a really rough home life and if the school had said anything to her father that she would have been beaten up. Naturally this put the school in a very difficult situation. They had to support her too and it probably went some way to explaining why she was a bully. I never let it bother me though, well not too much anyway.

    Things are different now and there are so many ways that pupils can be bullied. Kids report stuff about MSN bullying and text bullying all the time but without the proof, teachers can't really do anything. It's also a police matter if it happens outside of the school and many parents are unwilling to follow it up and just expect the school to make the problem magically disappear.

    From a teacher's perspective, I see that ALL issues of bullying are dealt with properly, despite what we say to the kids involved. Seriously though, what do you expect teachers to do? Especially when it's just your word against the bully's? In general, pupils have more rights than teachers in school these days. It's not like we can get the bully in and cane their backside. So come on peeps, dont just diss the system, at least make suggestions about what you actually want to happen.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ^When i was at primary school i even got bullied by the headmaster! And the teachers just turned a blind eye to it all. Maybe it's because it was a small voluntary controlled church school though - they seem to get away with alot more. I left 6 years ago now and it stopped in my last year. Maybe it's improved, i don't know. But the headmaster is still there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's because bullies are quite good at what they do - harsh as this sounds - and can be subtle (and have a gang to back up that "no, miss, I never"), whereas a victim who finally cracks a fights back angrily will be noticed.

    I got into shit for being bullied, not even for fighting back. Never did fathom the logic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote: »
    ^When i was at primary school i even got bullied by the headmaster!

    WTF?
    Teachers have to report it and fill in all of the paperwork no matter what.

    I've never known this to happen. Yes, I've had to write down stuff that's happened but I've never known the techers to record anything that was written down.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote: »
    WTF?

    he used to insult me infront of the class, didn't help that he was our pe teacher too and all we played was football or cricket.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be fair some of these bullied kids can be as bad as the people bullying them.

    On each instance that i got done for "bullying" others, which wasn't actually bullying tbh, it was sorting out the twats that needed sorting, none of them ever got in trouble. That really irritated me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You'd think it'd be easier to prove now, what with texting and stuff, you have a record. But how many people keep someone who's bullying them on their myspace friends list, or whatever? It's like they don't want to miss something that someone's said about them. I'll never get that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was quite seriously bullied at one point in school, and one time, after some silly argument with the bullies, they pushed me on the floor and kicked me an the ribs and stuff, bruising me quite badly. As they went to run off, one tripped over my bag that I'd put on the floor and she fell and broke her arm. When I went to the teachers over it, I was suspended for fighting in school. She got nothing.

    Bloody ridiculous. It was only once I developed an attitude and started giving the abuse back that they left me alone though. Didn't earn me many friends unfortunetly, but the minute I left school I made real friends so I'm not overly fussed. I was lucky that I didn't have long left in school though, about 18 months, and I actually ended up quite poorly and not allowed in school full time for 6 months of it. I
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lacy wrote: »
    To be fair some of these bullied kids can be as bad as the people bullying them.

    On each instance that i got done for "bullying" others, which wasn't actually bullying tbh, it was sorting out the twats that needed sorting, none of them ever got in trouble. That really irritated me.

    You really do have a odd view of the world. I was just hated en masse by the twats like you at school, for no particular reason.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I find that people that get bullied or rejected by others in school a lot do tend to have a bit of an attitude. But it's hardly surprising really, is it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You really do have a odd view of the world. I was just hated en masse by the twats like you at school, for no particular reason.

    Lol twats like me? And what exactly does that mean?

    I never once picked on someone that didn't deserve it. There were some horrible people in my year that used to bully people for no reason, like they were ugly or fat or just didn't fit in. You'd be more likely to see me sticking up for them than bullying them. My school classed anything ending in a fight as bullying. I got in a lot of fights with people because of various reasons, therefore i got labelled a bully.

    Yes i do have an odd view of the world. Unlike you it seems who is totally normal.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote: »
    Yes, I've had to write down stuff that's happened but I've never known the techers to record anything that was written down.
    What I meant was that this stuff would be filed. That's why we get you to write it down. The only way that schools can get rid of difficult pupils, without it going to appeal and them being allowed back in, is if they've got a paper trail about a mile long. Most incidents in school are recorded in some way, shape or form for this reason. The fact that you, as a pupil, don't know about it does not mean that it's not happening.

    I note that this thread has gone on and people have bitched about teachers some more ... and they've bitched at each other some more ... but nobody has answered the question that I posed about what should be done about bullies. It was a genuine question and one which schools are struggling to deal with due to the fact that they don't have that much power.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What could we do about bullies?

    Parents, teachers and students making a united front against bullies. As it stands they can get away with it because nobody really gives a shit. I've seen people getting the shit kicked out of them and people (including parents picking up their kids!) just ignore them! I was the only one that intervened. Then the deputy head of the secondary school ran out as the boy was covered in blood. (this was outside the college)

    After I was bloodied a bit, one of the older students looked after me and got a member of staff - not the receptionists who just ogled me. I think it's very much the attitude that it's not their problem unless someone approaches them. It's just their job, they go to work their 9 - 5 and that's it. You do get the odd teacher who's exceptional and I commend them - but they are the exception and not the rule.
  • **helen****helen** Mod malarkist Posts: 9,235 Listening Ear
    Lacy wrote: »
    Lol twats like me? And what exactly does that mean?

    Quite, what does that mean? I think the issue of bullying is relevant to all of us and emotions can run pretty high when the issues are talked about in detail. The problem arises when you hear someone admit that they were feisty at school and imagine the person that bullied you with their face. I think we could all make judgements about people on these boards and whether or not they would have been our friends or foes at school, but it's unlikely to achieve anything, or even be a true judgement.

    Moving on, I listened to a presentation by three 18 year-olds yesterday afternoon about raising awareness of bullying, and they said that often when they were bullied, their teachers/parents/etc would just say 'ignore it, they'll soon lose interest.' Did anyone experience anything similar?

    Also, did anyone have peer to peer counselling at their school?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    **Helen** wrote: »
    their teachers/parents/etc would just say 'ignore it, they'll soon lose interest.' Did anyone experience anything similar?

    Yes. They only lost interest when I changed tutor group 2 years later.:yeees:
    What I meant was that this stuff would be filed. That's why we get you to write it down. The only way that schools can get rid of difficult pupils, without it going to appeal and them being allowed back in, is if they've got a paper trail about a mile long. Most incidents in school are recorded in some way, shape or form for this reason. The fact that you, as a pupil, don't know about it does not mean that it's not happening.

    I know that, but they never got rid of the pupils who were bullying me. All they did was call their parents in, had a chat with them and that was it.

    And I think once or twice the advice was 'just stay away from them':yeees: and nothing actually happened to the people who were bullying me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Like I said earlier, the advice 'just ignore it' is often used because then it saves the teachers the hassle of paperwork and beaurocracy I'd imagine. Much better if the students sort it out themselves, then the school can say 'there is no bullying problem'.

    Thing is, whenever I was told to just ignore it, I was I guess you could call an emotional wreck (as anyone who's been bullied can empathise with) and you don't have the energy to say 'no... please do something'. You just say 'ok' meekly with your eyes on the floor. They say if it gets worse come back sometimes, but you never do, because you feel like you're just wasting their time.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    **Helen** wrote: »
    would just say 'ignore it, they'll soon lose interest.' Did anyone experience anything similar?
    Of course. That's what they always say. And if they've not lost interest yet, they will later. Naturally, they all do lose interest sometime, even if it's when you all graduate. That's not the point, the point is to make them stop before.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think theres very little that can be done .. when it comes down to it you can't have a member of staff to constantly watch over the class.. if the bullies feel like bullying someone they'll just do it outside classrooms/when teachers arent in the room etc.. not to mention it'll be the bullied persons word against the bullies and they're mates, and generally the rest of the class won't have the balls to speak up

    bit of a no win situation
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    What could we do about bullies?

    Parents, teachers and students making a united front against bullies. As it stands they can get away with it because nobody really gives a shit. I've seen people getting the shit kicked out of them and people (including parents picking up their kids!) just ignore them! I was the only one that intervened. Then the deputy head of the secondary school ran out as the boy was covered in blood. (this was outside the college)

    After I was bloodied a bit, one of the older students looked after me and got a member of staff - not the receptionists who just ogled me. I think it's very much the attitude that it's not their problem unless someone approaches them. It's just their job, they go to work their 9 - 5 and that's it. You do get the odd teacher who's exceptional and I commend them - but they are the exception and not the rule.

    Shyboy, did you read what I posted earlier? Despite what you may think, teachers do record what is reported to them. They have to. It's part of the '9-5' job as you put it, not in addition to it. The fact that they don't step in when there's a fight is because they're not allowed to. Naturally, some of us still do because it's a natural reaction but then there's the whole issue of how do you pull two kids apart without 'touching' one of them? You might laugh at that and think that I'm being a bit silly about the whole thing but that is one of the main contentious issues in schools at the moment. It just takes one child to say that you touched her boob or his bum and it's suddenly a big issue that's all over the papers. Teachers are constantly being told to be on their guard against anything like this. We're not even supposed to be alone with a single child and it's nothing to do with protecting the kids but protecting ourselves.

    There is no teacher that wants bullies in a school. It's just very difficult to know what to do about them. From a teacher's perspective the problem is obviously the bullies but also the people that let bullies get away with it. I'm not talking about the people that are being bullied but the other people that know about it. By ignoring what's happening to their peers, they are implying that it's acceptable. The schools that have the least bullying are the ones where the pupils actively take a stand against it instead of expecting adults to sort out the problem for them. (We'd love to but we can't). Peer mentoring seems to be having a positive impact in a number of schools BUT all it takes is for a few people to stand up for the one that's being bullied instead of shying away from a bit of confrontation. Bullies tend to pick on isolated people and naturally bullying can make people more isolated. It's a vicious circle but one that other people can help to stop by befriending the bullied person and standing up for them.

    Sofie, you raised a good point about schools getting parents in and it not really having any effect. On some pupils that works but on others, the problems begin at home and so it makes no difference. It's a shame that schools can't just kick out bullies ... but unfortunately that is the system and the only way to get it changed is to lobby the minister for education OR maybe the board of governors at your school. It's damn hard to kick pupils out of schools these days. Without a paper trail of hundreds of misdemeanours and a series of fixed term exclusions a lawyer will be able to get that kid back into the same school. The school has to show that they've tried to help the child and tried to work with them on their problem.

    In fact it's a shite system. It pisses me off though when people go on and on and on about teachers doing fuck all when the reason for that is that they can't. It's not that we don't care, it's that our hands are tied. The reason for the standard comment of 'Just ignore them' is that if you ignore them, then in theory it shouldn't upset you. I know how crap this advice seems as I've been there. In fact I think that it's hard to find anyone who hasn't been bullied. It's shit and everyone deals with it in different ways. I got through it because I had some friends that were supportive.

    A lot of bullying these days extends outside the school gates - fights/texts/MSN. If that is the case, don't bother reporting it to your school. Get the police involved. Whilst they have to go through a series of procedures too (just like schools), they do have more options available to them.

    I'm sorry if I sound a bit stroppy in this post but that's because I am. I know that this is a site for young people to share their views and I appreciate that teachers are the 'enemy'. It would be nice though if people could actually try and use their brains when complaining about teachers (whether it's about them not teaching the pupils properly or about them not breaking up fights or whatever) and consider the guidelines that teachers have to follow and maybe how they could help themselves. Teachers are just human beings; they're not god like; they're not all powerful and can't solve every problem. Deal with it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    **Helen** wrote: »
    Also, did anyone have peer to peer counselling at their school?

    I think they might have piloted it at mine. Doubt it would have worked.
    Sofie wrote:
    Yes. They only lost interest when I changed tutor group 2 years later.

    I had to change class in middle school as the bullying I was subject to was so bad, and even then the new class did the same things (only worse) And then everyone went to the same secondary school and it all continued.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The reason for the standard comment of 'Just ignore them' is that if you ignore them, then in theory it shouldn't upset you.

    Which I understand but it never works. They do get bored after a while, but it is normally several months before they do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've never been bullied seriously but I remember getting picked on by these kids in the year above me at Primary school. I ended up knocking this guy to the floor and smacking the shit out of his face until I broke his nose. Got suspended for ages but when I came back no one said a word to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    pill 'ed wrote: »
    I've never been bullied seriously but I remember getting picked on by these kids in the year above me at Primary school. I ended up knocking this guy to the floor and smacking the shit out of his face until I broke his nose. Got suspended for ages but when I came back no one said a word to me.

    Lol two girls bullied me for a while at primary school. I remember crying cos they called me a nerd :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Lacy wrote: »
    Lol two girls bullied me for a while at primary school. I remember crying cos they called me a nerd :lol:

    Lol! You nerd! :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    When I said about breaking up fights - I meant that there were parents and students walking past, and just ignoring it or walking hurriedly past. Like I said, some teachers are exceptional, and if you report you've been bullied, they will check up in a week or so, and will take positive action, they will reassure you that its being dealt with and that it's unnacceptable.

    Any teacher that tells a student to just ignore it without offering to do anything for the student imo is falling short, because there is a lot you can do without excluding the student. One teacher I had even brought bullying up in a class discussion, and we all knew who was being discussed, and it made him stop the behaviour right there and then as his 'friends' said 'yea... I think some people get really mean sometimes'.

    Teachers can do a lot, and if they don't realise that then it's a shame imo. For the record, everytime a teacher has stood up for students, they've never got in trouble. Even if it's just giving the bullies a bollocking in the corridor. When people are calling you names and swearing at you, you feel intimidated, and smaller than an ant, then a teacher walks past and doesn't say anything - it just justifies it to the bullies and makes the victim feel like there is no way out.

    I just counted the days til the end of school when I'd get a break.

    eta: ooh my favourite was being put with kids who bullied me across the classroom in front of the teacher, because I was clever and they were dumb, and was humiliated every lesson. I think my attendance dropped off pretty sharply then actually.
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Even if teachers do intervene, all that happens is that you get bullied for being a chicken and telling the teachers. That's what happened in my case, in the younger years.

    First year in middle school (about 12 years old, 7th year of school) one of my friends in another school was being bullied about being short. He told the principal and he asked one of the older kids to pretend he was my friend's big brother and tell the bullies he'll beat them up if they bother him again. He did that, and then my friend was being teased for telling his brother.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    got bullied for the first couple weeks in middle school. Then at a dance one of them shoved me when my back was turned and ran off. I chased them and shoved the dude headfirst into a wall. Never was bothered in school after that. Didn't get a break though because none of the teachers saw it.

    Seems to be one of the best ways to deal with bullies; find your opportunity and when it comes around make them pay.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wasn't, but I do remember whenever there was a fight, both kids tended to get into equal trouble, even if one had been bullying the other for months. I can't remember anyone ever being punished for bullying, but then perhaps that's not the sort of thing that's done publicly. I'd be interested to know if anyone used to be a bully, and how they were treated?



    No bully here but I remember both parties in the fight always getting in trouble. Everyone was just told to ignore the bully.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    Like I said, some teachers are exceptional, and if you report you've been bullied, they will check up in a week or so, and will take positive action, they will reassure you that its being dealt with and that it's unnacceptable.
    I thought that all teachers did this as a matter of course. If they don't, then they're in the wrong profession.
    Any teacher that tells a student to just ignore it without offering to do anything for the student imo is falling short, because there is a lot you can do without excluding the student. One teacher I had even brought bullying up in a class discussion, and we all knew who was being discussed, and it made him stop the behaviour right there and then as his 'friends' said 'yea... I think some people get really mean sometimes'.
    Again, I figured that all teachers did this. As for it stopping the bully, I've seen varied results.
    Teachers can do a lot, and if they don't realise that then it's a shame imo. For the record, everytime a teacher has stood up for students, they've never got in trouble. Even if it's just giving the bullies a bollocking in the corridor. When people are calling you names and swearing at you, you feel intimidated, and smaller than an ant, then a teacher walks past and doesn't say anything - it just justifies it to the bullies and makes the victim feel like there is no way out.
    And again, I can't believe that any teacher would walk past and ignore this IF they heard. When you're focused on getting your photocopying done before next lesson, it's amazing how much you don't notice anything else going on around you.

    Clearly ShyBoy you should go into teaching. It's obvious that you'd be much better than most of those in the profession at the minute. There'd never be a bullying problem with you around.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,185 Skive's The Limit
    Even if teachers do intervene, all that happens is that you get bullied for being a chicken and telling the teachers. That's what happened in my case, in the younger years.

    :yes:

    That is what happens. The only thing you can really do is stand up for yourself. Have the bottle to do something outragous back, get the fucker on his own with bat, or humiliate him in public. Sure you might get filled in for it later, or in trouble with authority, but you'll get respect.
    Yesterday is history
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