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The Budget

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yup. All Brown (and plenty of other politicians in fact) go on about is 'hard-working families.' Fair enough but it would seem fair to give single people or couples without kids a break sometime.

    :yes: I totally agree. High taxes and no help from the state whatsoever.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    That doesn't make any sense.

    The primary purpose of taxing fags etc is to limit their use, and this appears to be successful.

    Criminals getting some business is irrelevant. If that was what we were mainly worried about we would hand them out free........

    But it isnt limiting their use, social pressure is largely the reason people dont smoke anymore, that and the health concerns.

    What I am suggesting is that there is a balance, you need to tax cigs highly, but if you tax them too highly you just fill the market with smuggled cigs instead - these are more dangerous and help fund other crime.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Territt wrote: »
    why not ban the import of cigarettes all togather, tell people that say a packet of 20 is the most you can bring back from hoilday with you?

    Why didnt the government think of that, telling drug smugglers its against the law definitely works, it would certainly stop people smuggling cigs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katchika wrote: »
    :yes: I totally agree. High taxes and no help from the state whatsoever.

    I don't think single people/couples without kids should get help, but i think you should be taxed more fairly. Less people use less tbh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote: »
    But it isnt limiting their use, social pressure is largely the reason people dont smoke anymore, that and the health concerns.

    What I am suggesting is that there is a balance, you need to tax cigs highly, but if you tax them too highly you just fill the market with smuggled cigs instead - these are more dangerous and help fund other crime.

    How ridiculous of you to make such a confident assertion, do you have evidence for this?

    If something is more expensive, the use of it will decrease in the vast majority of cases.

    Yes there is a balance to be had, but to the best of my knowledge, most people still get their fags in fairly conventional ways, though I may be wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    If taxing them makes Britain a nicer place then it is a good thing.....

    Oh yes. If excessive taxes rid Britain of all those 'undesirable' smokers Britain will be a much nicer place. What a nice, tolerant person you are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its a simple externality problem, it isn't complicated.

    Same solution as congestion charges, taxing alcohol, taxing big cars etc.

    What has tolerance got to do with it? No-one is banned from smoking, it is just made expensive so as to discourage people and to help pay for the harm done to themselves and others.

    You can commit a slow suicide all you want, as long as you pay for the mess you leave behind when you choke it......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote: »
    Less people use less tbh.

    Excellent idea and if you don't have children then you should get a state pension in the future either, as it's my kids who will be paying for it. Oh and don't use any of the services either because they will be paying for and staffing that.

    The reason that the state supports families is because they are the future of this country.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    Highlights:

    2p cut in corporation tax

    Only on the higher rate of corporation tax though, he is increasing the lower rate from the current 19p to 22p by 2009.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Excellent idea and if you don't have children then you should get a state pension in the future either, as it's my kids who will be paying for it. Oh and don't use any of the services either because they will be paying for and staffing that.

    The reason that the state supports families is because they are the future of this country.

    Will there be a state pension in the future? Will it have any value?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote: »
    The whole idea is trying to discourage people from driving gas guzzlers isn't it?

    Can't you really think why the use of such vehicles should be discouraged?

    If that really is the idea, then it is poorly executed. The relationship between CO2 emission and gas-guzzling is not absolute, and more than half of the issue is being completely ignored. What bit is that? Well, cars made before 2000 still work on the old system. So an old, inefficient, large-engined car that pollutes loads will pay less tax than a newer, more efficient vehicle. Environment my arse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Due to the fact that I use my phone to access the internet, I can't seem to use these online tax calculators, would someone be able to work out how much I come out with from £10,400 after you deduct all NI and income tax. I figure it out as somewhere around 8,700 but I'm not sure.

    Assuming I have the bog standard new tax allowance etc.

    ps I like how news reports say how smokers and drinkers will be x amount of £'s worse off, surely they'd be far better off not spending a fiver on a pack of tabs every couple of days.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its no wonder people have trouble getting off benefits when middle income earners get a tax cut from extra tax on the lowest earners (from the removal of the 10% rate)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I only work part time and I don't earn enough to pay tax at 22% so I'm a tad miffed.

    The standard personal allowance is set to increase to £5225 p/a - which is an extra £190 tax free for 07/08 but even though, I've just worked out I will pay an extra £176 in tax :crying:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote: »
    ps I like how news reports say how smokers and drinkers will be x amount of £'s worse off, surely they'd be far better off not spending a fiver on a pack of tabs every couple of days.

    :confused: Well I suppose we'd be all financially 'better off' if we didn't spend money on things we like and enjoy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Will there be a state pension in the future? Will it have any value?

    There will always be something, unless the Tories or Brown are in for a while... ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    You can commit a slow suicide all you want, as long as you pay for the mess you leave behind when you choke it......
    That's a bit dramatic a statement isn't it?

    I suspect regular flyers or car drivers leave 'a mess behind' several thousand times bigger than smokers could possibly manage. Do you advocate slapping a £300 tax on every flight and an extra £2 tax on every litre of fuel? That would bring it in line with the percentage of taxes slapped on fags, and imagine how much of a mess could be avoided if millions of people were priced out of the sky and the roads.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, the comparison isn't relevant.

    Tax needs to be far higher on fags to achieve the desired disincentive effect because it is addictive, and thus demand for it is highly inelastic.......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You could argue that cars are addictive. They are, in fact. Most drivers will simply not contemplate using public transport if they can go by car with relative ease.

    And I hope you'll agree damage done by car fumes is far greater than damage done by cigarette smoke.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Possibly, but the important thing is that cars (and other motorised transport) is useful whereas smoking is utterly pointless, and so it is far easier to justify taxing it to a very high degree.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    Possibly, but the important thing is that cars (and other motorised transport) is useful whereas smoking is utterly pointless, and so it is far easier to justify taxing it to a very high degree.

    Subjective opinion, not fact.

    Smoking is not 'utterly pointless' to the millions of adults that enjoy it. Should we tax chocolate and fatty foods to a very high degree? Are they 'utterly pointless'?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Those adults only enjoy it because they are addicts who are to weak to break the addiction.

    Food is completely different, we need to eat, sometimes we eat the 'wrong' thing but eating (and drinking) are still natural and essential things to do, smoking is not........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Subjective opinion, not fact.

    Smoking is not 'utterly pointless' to the millions of adults that enjoy it.


    We can all agree though that smoking is a pointless way to die. And a painful one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote: »
    Those adults only enjoy it because they are addicts who are to weak to break the addiction.

    Nonsense. I've broken my dependence yet still enjoy the odd cigarette now and again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why do you enjoy it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I like the taste, I like the feeling of the smoke on the back of my throat with a cold pint of lager. Why do people enjoy anything?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    We can all agree though that smoking is a pointless way to die.

    Interesting idea. So, do non smokers stay alive then, or do they also eventually die? Are the causes of their deaths less pointless?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sorry, but just to butt in quickly, then run, I think the point of contrast between cigarettes and cars, is that cars serve a practical purpose, and cigarettes serve a recreational purpose. In that sense, most people would consider something with a practical purpose to be more important that only serves a recreational purpose. A doctor is "more important" than a singer, for example.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote: »
    I like the taste, I like the feeling of the smoke on the back of my throat with a cold pint of lager. Why do people enjoy anything?

    :yes:

    Yep, reason why a lot of people smoke, because they enjoy the actually act and taste of smoking. If it was just nicotine addiction it'd be a lot easier. to stop.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    We can all agree though that smoking is a pointless way to die. And a painful one.

    No more pointless than any other way to die. People enjoy it - let them do it.

    As the great Bill Hicks said, non-smokers die every day. I know some of you non-smokers entertain some sort of eternal-life fantasy so let's just pop that little bubble right now.
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